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Bump MA please. :)

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
I love skiing bumps but have had so few chances of doing it where I'm skiing. Now I've gotten the opportinity to have a single line bump in the local slope and I'm stoked to have somewhere to practice moguls. I reshaped the bumps with snowcat and shovel thursday evening and tried it out today. It's 7m between left bumps (i tried to follow the FIS instructions the best I could while making it).
I'm really just a happy beginner and I feel I don't have much clue as to what I should do except for trying keeping the knees together, the tips down and moving hands forward inward after pole plant. Also if you have any opinions regarding the looks of the bumps I'm all ears.

What's my aim? 50% make it look better. 50% go faster.

Here's the videos.




Both clips were ran through Virtualdub/Deshaker if you wonder about the black borders. It was cold as h*ll and the cameraman was shaking. :)
Edited by Carl R - 1/30/10 at 4:01pm
post #2 of 35
Good skiing Carl. Zipper line skiing. Slamming the rut.
post #3 of 35
 this move will help you with both of your goals since your not using your full range of balance



is your goal comp bump skiing line?
post #4 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

is your goal comp bump skiing line?

Yes.
post #5 of 35
Thread Starter 
Is the dolphin turn drill hinting that using the heels before the bump is correct?
Or is it for getting a full body motion memory of how it feels to get the tips down?
I'm just trying to visualize what the aim of the drill is.
post #6 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl R View Post




Yes.
 

the basics are there...

COM moves down the hill using a cross under 
upper body is square to the hill and steering is coming from the legs 
pole touch is on top or on the backside of the bump(what lenght poles/how tall)

to get faster your going to have to build balance and quickness as well strengthing all the muscle in your body for battle.
post #7 of 35

Nice Carl.

I see the need to push your tips down a little to get them engaged. It will help you stand up a little taller and do two things, keep your head quieter and keep you out of the backseat.

In the second video you can see your mass on the heels and your tips not contacting the snow at all. it's hard to control speed this way and eventually you'll bail out or wreck.

but, the basics are there and I think you're close to being really good.

post #8 of 35
Thread Starter 
I didn't really do the dolphin drill, just some standing on the ground feeling it. And some jumps in the lift. But it *really* helped as a mental image. Going over the bump visualizing the dolphin drill got the tips down much better.
I pushed the hips much more forward going over/past the bump now. I don't know if it's correct but it felt like i was working backwards and forwards with the hips passing each bump.
More practice tomorrow follows.
Thanks for all hints and tips!!
post #9 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl R View Post

What's my aim? 50% make it look better. 50% go faster.
 

Neither, go slow and work on technique.


As mentioned by others, get off the back seat, dolphin drills is good in that it will get you center (on top of the ski). A coach made me do hop turns to get the ankle flexed and to stay on top. Closest I see was this (in public domain) but with no pivot slip in between and you pole plant to hop 180 degrees. That drill still sends shivers down my shin.  





Also, you're rushing your absorbtion, try to pressure the front side of the bump with the front part of the ski. Thats how you control your turns on the approach. Look at the vid below on the absortion tank, some wc bumpers do drills on these rollers all day long. Getting front pressure is very important to them. And yes getting rollers like that in your home mountain is tuff but the point is getting the front loaded, you can still do that by putting that pressure on the frontside of the bump.




Your vid shows the poles are getting in the way, get an old pair, hopefully ligth ones and shorten them, Joemammoth gave the best recomendation, height should be about where the handles reach the hip bone (the part sticking out). But this may vary depending on usage.

 

Edited by jack97 - 2/1/10 at 5:30pm
post #10 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jack97 View Post

Neither, go slow and work on technique
 
Gee, thanks for setting me straight. The reason I ski bumps is that I ultimately want to go slow and work on technique all day. Preferably in the waves.
Better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jack97 View Post

Your vid shows the poles are getting in the way, get an old pair, hopefully ligth ones and shorten them
 

They are already cut short. I just suck.
post #11 of 35
No, you don't suck. You do alot of good stuff.

Forgot to mentioned this in the section about your poling, (i'm getting frustrated my pc w/ old os). Your poling is getting the shoulder further behind b/c you can't it release fast enuf. To resolve this, cast the basket out, aim the tip to make contact at the top or on the backside. This will keep the upper body going downhill.
post #12 of 35
Thread Starter 
Cast out? Do you mean to the side or forwards?

The goal is to release the pole early right? And the problem is that by not releasing it early, the shoulder gets behind by upper body rotation?
post #13 of 35
Thread Starter 
Here's some videos from today.
I feel much more comfortable going faster now, and I think that the skis seem to follow better. I've been concentrating on keeping the upper body together. I think when I look at the videos that my head is bobbing up and down a lot.

What do you think? Is it better? What is the current biggest problem?
Thanks!



A little trouble with the balance on the last bump. ;)


post #14 of 35
 wow this is a real first you actually got better though internet instruction, I feel as if I should of at least made some money on this!!!

your breaking at the waist to much, its due to not enough ankle flex/not enough forward lean. I would try either if the boots are adjustable.....
post #15 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl R View Post

Cast out? Do you mean to the side or forwards?

The goal is to release the pole early right? And the problem is that by not releasing it early, the shoulder gets behind by upper body rotation?
 

Here's what I'm mean on poling


Btw, when I mean cast the basket, just let the pole hang out so the tip will make contact with top or back side of the bump, the side parts is just as good (but toward the top/backside). In the last vids, the tip is still hitting the frontside. 

Also agree with BP, you may need more forward lean on those boots. Lange, Dalbello and Full Tilts are what whats bumpers are using. Lost of forward lean and soft flex to prevent the shin bang.
post #16 of 35
Thread Starter 
I'm using Lange (XR-9 Race) with all inserts. They are solid stiff.
Getting other boots is however not an option right now. I'd love to get a pair of Flexon Comp replicas later, as I loved those boots until they literally fell apart.
post #17 of 35
Thread Starter 
 Btw, good video Jack. :)
post #18 of 35
Some of the problem is in your basic stance, or home position as I like to call it.  Your hips need to be forward more over the balls of your feet. Your position is leaning forward and leading with your chest. Think more of leading with your hips.Do not bend from the waist. You have to get more tip pressure or drive from pushing your entire mass over the ski.  This can be difficult if you are not  making good solid turns, because your mass is always being pushed down the hill=acceleration. So as jack said-slow down. In order to this you may want to reshape those bumps somewhat, they are a bit pointy.  Go out and knock the tops off with a shovel, throw the extra snow in the troughs. When you first build bumps they do not have to be too big. They will build up as you ski them.  Give yourself enough spacing between the bumps to use more of your ski and be more patient with your turn.
post #19 of 35
I'm liking it. Amazing what a few tips can do huh?

I thin BWIPA is on to something. I ski in 80 flex boots and buckled lightly. This gives me the ankle flex I need to push my tips down a little easier. Also, Joe is probably talking about a stack position when he's talking about getting your hips forward. There's a great video on youtube about this from chuck Martin in his mogul lessons. I'll see if I can find it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWSJtHNVxEI
post #20 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemammoth View Post

Some of the problem is in your basic stance, or home position as I like to call it.  Your hips need to be forward more over the balls of your feet. Your position is leaning forward and leading with your chest. Think more of leading with your hips.Do not bend from the waist. You have to get more tip pressure or drive from pushing your entire mass over the ski.  This can be difficult if you are not  making good solid turns, because your mass is always being pushed down the hill=acceleration. So as jack said-slow down. In order to this you may want to reshape those bumps somewhat, they are a bit pointy.  Go out and knock the tops off with a shovel, throw the extra snow in the troughs. When you first build bumps they do not have to be too big. They will build up as you ski them.  Give yourself enough spacing between the bumps to use more of your ski and be more patient with your turn.


Joe whats a stacked stance? I mean I understand what one is but in bumps a stacked stance is a very dynamic movement.

Reshape bumps so you can ski them your way? sounds like pretty bad advice because on real hills you never get to choose what your skiing. On the hill they quite often get super pointy and troughed, I love watching people try to make round turns though stuff like that!
post #21 of 35

When you build bumps by hand, or more importantly with a cat its a good idea to knock them down some to give them a more natural shape. If you have gone to the trouble of building them by hand you should maintain them. Every training venue and competition venue is maintained in this manner. It is also a good for safety. Bushwacker, I think I read somewhere around here that you work at Stowe. I used to keep a couple lines of training bumps on Spruce like that. People loved them, always trying to sneak onto my course and mess up the kids training runs. Those lines were slipped, shoveled and maintained everyday.

 

A stacked stance is not a movement. It is the home position. Knees over the toes, hips over the front of the heels.  Eyes up, chin up , chest up. This allows the skier the greatest range of motion through the turn.

post #22 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemammoth View Post

When you build bumps by hand, or more importantly with a cat its a good idea to knock them down some to give them a more natural shape. If you have gone to the trouble of building them by hand you should maintain them. Every training venue and competition venue is maintained in this manner. It is also a good for safety. Bushwacker, I think I read somewhere around here that you work at Stowe. I used to keep a couple lines of training bumps on Spruce like that. People loved them, always trying to sneak onto my course and mess up the kids training runs. Those lines were slipped, shoveled and maintained everyday.

 



Before this era of suppressive over grooming, I hear tell that patrollers would sometimes slip trails before the bumps got too crazy.

This is how my fav mtn seeds a bump run


 
post #23 of 35
Jack,is that Okemo?  Looks like Ledges.  Thats where we started seeding.  It took a few attempts to get it right. Okemo was good because we would blow snow on them overnight, take the peaks of them and fill in the troughs. Would still hand shape the m after. Stowe would just cat them up and then I would slip and shape. It would suck if they set up, lots of hard work.  Mammoth we would ski them in using landscaping flags and them slip and shape accordingly
post #24 of 35


Stacked position and it's importance in skiing moguls.
post #25 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemammoth View Post

Jack,is that Okemo?  Looks like Ledges.  Thats where we started seeding.  It took a few attempts to get it right. Okemo was good because we would blow snow on them overnight, take the peaks of them and fill in the troughs. Would still hand shape the m after. Stowe would just cat them up and then I would slip and shape. It would suck if they set up, lots of hard work.  Mammoth we would ski them in using landscaping flags and them slip and shape accordingly

That's Sunapee in the vid, upper flying goose. They seeded most of the width of the trail in past years. This season, they only seeded 3-4 lines.

Over at Whaleback, Evan Dybvig runs the place and the freestyle program. When I went over to his course, I thought it was seeded but he said he did with skiers only. He set turns and his teams followed.
post #26 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post



Stacked position and it's importance in skiing moguls.

Hm, Perpendicular to the slope of the hill? Shouldn that be perpendicuar to the gravity field? Perpendicular to the the slope would put the CoM above the skitips when it is steep.
post #27 of 35
Carl - Shorten your poles more, like 5cm.
Then try to be more stable with your upper body and work harder from your knee and down.
My focus is to hit the bump, take the impact and still be strait in my upper body, the challenge is to NOT be on the heels.
Or try to pass Hammarbybacken monday evenings and I'll give you som IRL tips :-) We're have mogultranings 19-22.
 - anders
post #28 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post




Hm, Perpendicular to the slope of the hill? Shouldn that be perpendicuar to the gravity field? Perpendicular to the the slope would put the CoM above the skitips when it is steep.
 

Did you watch the video?

I think it's self explainatory from one of the best mogul skiers around.
post #29 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post




Did you watch the video?

I think it's self explainatory from one of the best mogul skiers around.
 

Of course I watched it, its in the video he says that the stack should be perpendicular to the slope. When I try to picture that in my head in a steep slope I have a strong feeling that the COM will be too far forward.
post #30 of 35
The steeper the slope, you must get  forward don't you? Otherwise you'd be skiing in the backseat and have no speed control.

That's how I see it. but it's still relative to being over your skis in a stack position.

And it's about changing terrain but being balanced.
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