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post #31 of 37
Could you first explain what you mean by having the apex above the fall line?
Please include your apex definition in that explanation. I don't think that our definitions match.

Btw, the word apex never occurs in that article.
post #32 of 37
In a typical turn, one that starts out with a a gradually decreasing (from infinity) radius and ends with an increasing radius, the apex is the tightest (smallest radius) point of the turn.  If you were skiing along a horizontal of the ski resort, say at the bottom of the hill, but with a lot of speed built up you could turn any which way and put that apex anywhere you liked.   You can do that on the sloped section of the hill too.  The skis work the same way, there is just a slightly different direction to the force of gravity relative to the surface of the slope. 
post #33 of 37
That's a very good definition of the apex.
post #34 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post

I'm not sure how to show that, but the following article is a good introduction:

 

www.youcanski.com/en/coaching/inside_ski.htm

Now I think I understand what you mean by striving to have the apex above the fall line.
On the other hand I can't understand why it would be something to strive for outside the race course.
For me, moving the apex you are talking about to the early part of the turn is quite similar to "taking height" in a course.
Taking height is done to be able to straghtline across the gate and is beneficial because you get more time to line up for the next gate. It's also beneficial because the skis are pressured less after the fall line, and edge pressure after the fall line costs speed.
However going high is a longer way to travel which means that it is slower if the shorter line could be taken for a series of gates without problem.

When freecarving I see no reason whatsoever doing commas. Keeping the pressure through the turn feels nice and there's no use to force a certain path other than what feels natural.

Did you watch vetenskapens värld on tv2 this week about the olympic athletes? It was about Svindal and DH skiing. It's avaliable on svtplay. They overlay 2 riders there and they fail to mention it but it's rather obvious that Svindal is taking height before the steeper parts to accelerate better with flatter and calmer skis pass the gate. Still a nice and interesting show. :)
Edited by Carl R - 2/5/10 at 9:49am
post #35 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl R View Post



Now I think I understand what you mean by striving to have the apex above the fall line.
On the other hand I can't understand why it would be something to strive for outside the race course.
For me, moving the apex you are talking about to the early part of the turn is quite similar to "taking height" in a course.
Taking height is done to be able to straghtline across the gate and is beneficial because you get more time to line up for the next gate. It's also beneficial because the skis are pressured less after the fall line, and edge pressure after the fall line costs speed.
Third benefit is getting more time to line up for the next gate.
However going high is a longer way to travel which means that it is slower if the shorter line could be taken for a series of gates without problem.

When freecarving I see no reason whatsoever doing commas. Keeping the pressure through the turn feels nice and there's no use to force a certain path other than what feels natural.

Did you watch teknikens värld on tv2 this week about the olympic athletes? It was about Svindal and DH skiing. It's avaliable on svtplay. They overlay 2 riders there and they fail to mention it but it's rather obvious that Svindal is taking height before the steeper parts to accelerate better with flatter and calmer skis pass the gate. Still a nice and interesting show. :)

 

Unfortunately, the video is limited to viewing from Sweden only.
post #36 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastersRacer View Post




Unfortunately, the video is limited to viewing from Sweden only.

OT: It was an interesting show. They are using gps sensors and muscle sensors on the skiers. Also they perfom a CT-scan on Aksel and another skier to se how their brains react to watching a downhill run. It seems that Aksel can use his "room sense" to keep his mind busy on where the gates are and how the terrain is and that kind of blocks the negative thoughts that many of his competitors have.
post #37 of 37
More about Svinddal:

http://www.ronlemaster.com/articles/Aksel%20Lund%20Svindal.pdf

He is an interesting skier.

CarlR, at the same site (RLM) there is an article about line evolution if you are interested in why the tighter radius is faster.

Agree that early apex is more race-oriented, but I also have a feeling that it increases the inclination you can achieve, and also makes it easier not to skid at the end of the turn. I don't have any good technical arguments for that but I feel it is true when it gets really steep.
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