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Rusty's trusty tip!

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
I went skiing for the 1st time this season a week ago. Didn't ski great, but OK for the 1st day out. Then I remembered Rusty Guy's tip about turn initiation from last year: "Left-tip-left, right-tip-right." Almost immediately, I linked about 10-12 neat carved turns smoothly together with nice cross-under movement. Thanks again Rusty!
post #2 of 17
Wish I could take the credit, however, Bob Barnes coined the phrase.

I will say I get uneasy when I hear anyone mention cross over or cross under. I don't have time to discuss at this point because I need to get some sleep.

Let me sign off with another great quote from Bob. Finish the turn in the same position you start the turn......neutral! I think this is attributeable to the Mahre's whom Bob worked with for many years. Think of this in comparison to cross over or cross under.

Thanks for the credit, however, in the words of Bob Dylan it ain't me babe!
post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote from Rusty: "I will say I get uneasy when I hear anyone mention cross over or cross under."

Rusty - It's OK - I understand - Really - Don't worry about it!

On the other hand, I'm not willing to give Bob Barnes credit for anything until I see a preview of the entry for the 'Mambo Turn' in the next edition of, "The Complete Encyclopedia of Skiing!"
post #4 of 17
I had a new experience today. I was a "trainer" in our hiring clinic. We had about 125 folks trying out in a two day process for teaching slots at Eldora.

Guess who dropped in to my class in the afternoon to audit.....Bob.

He is now in charge of training at Eldora.

I was a little intimidated. I don't know who was more uneasy, the candidates or me! Bob and I are good friends. I just was a little uneasy with him auditing what I was doing. In addition, we don't have all our terrain open and the crowds were a mess. I was waiting for the mother of all wrecks to occur with one of my candidates.

All survived and Bob was his normal kind self.

I had a good time and all my "students" did just fine. I just hope they had a good experience, learned a little something, and had a chance to think about what it is like to teach skiing.

We swap groups tomorrow in an effort to add impartiality.

I'm going to hit the sack.
post #5 of 17
At some point I'll ramble about "cross over/cross under". I know I'm in the minority and it will cause a stir.

I'll leave a teaser.

A skier who is well balanced and finishes a turn in the same neutral position that they started doesn't need to cross over anything or have anything cross under them!
post #6 of 17

Ryan & I were talking about this & I just can NEVER remember being TOLD to crossover or under to ski!

My answer was - I get told to make skis go THERE & I try to do it. I try to make the skis FEEL a certain way in getting there (smooth feels good - very quiet)
Other times I amy be told to make bits of me go more in 1 direction(eg long turns - get shoulder/ear on snow) - again as an exercise so I can FEEL things. The idea is usually to chnage feel of ski by trying to move bits of me differently.

I am told my short turns on groomed are pretty much pure carved - but crossunder/over - nah not something I am taught to try for.

Do I need to?
Am I missing something?
Will this help me ski better?(To try to cross anything)

Oh I do understand the terms - but I jsut have nevr been taught to ski by thinking about them.
post #7 of 17
Rusty--thanks for letting me sit in with you today! And nice work, by the way!

Regarding cross-over and cross-under--I too have never had much use for those terms. Since it has come up several times in recent threads, I'll add that in some ways, it is another question of your "frame of reference"--it is all relative! Whether you cross OVER your skis, or they cross UNDER you, depends on your perspective.

On the other hand, some turns definitely do create the sensation of your body moving across your skis at the transition, while other turns feel more like your body is "still" and the skis pass beneath it.

Like Rusty says, though, if you feel that you need to muscularly "throw" yourself across your skis to get out of one turn and into another, it probably means that you didn't move accurately through the first turn--that you did not END it in "neutral." The same is true if you feel a need to quickly retract your legs to bring your skis back underneath you in the transition (what many people mean when they refer to "cross-under").

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #8 of 17
Thankyou Bob [img]smile.gif[/img]

That explains why I don't get taught it.

"ski SMOOTHLY" seems to be the exhortation & you are indicating that these terms do not equate with smooth?
post #9 of 17
To be anal about it, "crossover" hapens all the time or you will never change those edges . So from that perspective talking about crossover is pointless.

Crossunder, although not necessary, is fun. If you have never experienced loading a ski and having it literally bounce to the other side (with some help from your legs of course), then you may not be as well rounded as you want to be.

And yes, it is all relative. The skis don't know when they experience crossover or crossunder. [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #10 of 17
Originally posted by TomB:

The skis don't know when they experience crossover or crossunder. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Hey, no highjacking the thread by encouraging a metaphysical discussion.

Back to packing [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img] .
post #11 of 17
Gotta give kudos to another Bear! Our new SSD is Robin May. He has made a great many changes and they are being well received.

I have to give him credit for having the vision to allow Bob to take the reins involving training at our place.

post #12 of 17
Thread Starter 
Bob & Rusty -

I'm with you guys. When I first set out to modernize my technique, I got hung up on the 'crossover' thing. Then I remembered that I've often been a little to upper-body dominant in athletic pursuits in general, so I focused on the 'crossunder' thing. Now, thanks in large part to Rusty and Bob, I'm into 'neutral and centered'. I still have to occasionally remind myself that you don't ski with your shoulders, though! So, Bob - speaking of skiing with your shoulders - what about that 'Mambo Turn' entry?

[ December 08, 2002, 06:15 AM: Message edited by: Tominator ]
post #13 of 17
Wish it felt that way Rusty! So far I am faking it pretty well.
Trouble with "cross-over & crossunder" is that it is an phenomenon or more acurately a 'sensation" as Bob states, that is more appropriate when considered in relation to the neutral moment as the result of positive movements or a "passive occurance".
As a desire or intention it more tends to resemble "huckover" and "flingunder".

[ December 08, 2002, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: Robin ]
post #14 of 17
>>>"huckover" and "flingunder".<<<

Robin, I love that... [img]smile.gif[/img]

Good luck in your new position, being boss is a difficult job but you have experience in it already, and if Rusty likes what you are doing you've got it made, he is selective but genuine with his praise.

post #15 of 17
Thread Starter 
"Trouble with 'cross-over & crossunder' is that it is a phenomenon, or more acurately a 'sensation', as Bob states, that is more appropriate when considered in relation to the neutral moment as the result of positive movements or a 'passive occurance'. As a desire or intention it more tends to resemble 'huckover' and 'flingunder'".

Robin - Yes, that's it exactly (I think ...)!

[ December 08, 2002, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: Tominator ]
post #16 of 17
Thanks Ott! "single-handedly saving the Ski Industry....one resort at a time"
Tominator...I like the "Day the Earth stood still" reference.
post #17 of 17
The Day the Earth Stood Still!
Saw that in a theater with my dad when it first came out. Scared the hell out of me. :
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