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Carving = lame - Page 5

post #121 of 145
PSSST We get it and we appreciate it even!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post

Well, my month in Utah is all paid for thanks to the Epicgapers. Maybe even a Silverton Revenge Trip. In parting, I'd just like to say that nowhere but Gapicski are there such a large number of "skiers" who are so concerned that other annonymous people on the internet think they are expert skiers. What's really hilarious is that people think that because I start a joke thread I'm somehow proclaiming myself to be a superawesomeexpertrockstar skier. If somebody can link to exactly where I ever made any reference to my skiing ability, I'll give all the money back. Perhaps the only thing funnier than the internet experts are the guys who still don't get that I'm a jackass who is joking around 99% of the time. How obvious do I have to be?


Stop

taking

your

self

so

seriously

.

post #122 of 145
UMM ERR at least I do!!!
post #123 of 145
Don't leave Jer. Stay here.
We miss you Jer.
Come back Jer.
Jer!
post #124 of 145
I think I'd like to play again.  Here is my carve steeze



OMG!!! tipping the inside ski LTE.... Not very phantom-like of me.

post #125 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by polariso View Post

Remember when snowboards werent allowed at ski areas?
 

Ahhh, those were the days....  It was right after that, that everything went to hell!

Jer, I think this thread worked out well.  Very entertaining, but I really wish someone could explain to me exactly what this "carving" thing is?

JF
post #126 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post



I really don't know of anyone who frets about how the look while skiing underneath the chair.  The only really embarrassing thing to be seen doing underneath the chair (KT22 especially) is to stop mid-run to pick up a phone call or check a text.  That would be pretty lame. 

Regarding the OP's original premise: controlling speed in whatever means necessary is fine, especially if you are in terrain that can't be purely carved, such as rocky spines, tight chutes, WC GS on steep pitches. Watching the Hahnenkamm last weekend, several of the slower guys had to execute a skid to get back on line up top, after getting wide or bounced off their line.  Skidding is slow though.  All top skiers can and do carve on hardpack, windpack, deep snow; anytime they can open the throttle and have room to execute a full carve, they aren't skidding. View any top-level skiers on any big-mountain video; skidding when necessary, carving when the terrain allows. You guys have seen Daron Rahlves ski at Squaw, correct?  Arguing that he is somehow skidding, and not arcing them out when doing 6 turns down the full length of Chute 75, at 50mph, is somewhat like claiming that Michael Schumacher can't drive a stick or Lance Armstrong still requires training wheels to help him balance a bike. 

If Jer was arguing that the premise of the  "only carved turns are acceptable" is silly, then I agree with him.  Skiing steep terrain requires all manners of skills, not just arcing them out, obviously.  If he is just trying to insult people and saying that skidding is somehow a better way to ski (again, like arguing that driving Grandpa's automatic Buick is more stylish and  fun than a Porsche 911 996 GT3 with 6-speed manual tranny) then we are all wasting our time here.

 


Squawlywood author, Scott G., says that a line that is highly visible increases the hero factor, a blessing or a curse, depending on how your run goes. So, yeah, I'd say a lot of  people are aware of how they look under the chair.
post #127 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post

I think I'd like to play again.  Here is my carve steeze



OMG!!! tipping the inside ski LTE.... Not very phantom-like of me.


 


So that's one carve and one slide. Nice angulation, dude.
post #128 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post





So that's one carve and one slide. Nice angulation, dude.


If it looked that good coming down Ski School chute in the background, I'd have it made.
post #129 of 145
This thread has caused me to question my pending ski purchase decision. I'm getting back into skiing and currently have mid 90's GS race skis. I've been demoing new skis (mostly short to mid radius carving and slalom skis) and have been almost exclusively carving them whenever terrain and traffic permit. I'm really enjoying the more aggressive skis (Blizzard G-force Sonic, Head Supershape Magnum, Nordica Spitfire Pro, etc) and have made arrangements to demo even more aggressive and focused skis (Blizzard Supersonic and SLR). I have found none of these skis feel like they want to do anything but carve. I'm a little concerned I'll get bored with carving everywhere I go and be left with a ski that is ill suited to anything else (bumps, the terrain park, a trip west, etc). Are my concerns unfounded or would I be making a mistake to only have a pair of SLRs (for instance) and my old GS skis?

Thanks,
Jeff
post #130 of 145


CR, modesty becomes you, a gracious man.  but we already agreed here that that turn would be useless up there.

This shot of carving a few turns in a chute on soft snow is fun because the spray from both (1st and 2nd) turns is still in the air at the top of the third. I like that, as it gives you the speed.. get that bergschrund lined up, man!  Volkl Explosiv's, 2006, not known as a carving ski.

graves, I would only say that a ski with lots of  sidecut (42+mm)  is more difficult to slide  because it wants to grip at the tip and tail, causing a tugging at the ends of the skis where you are less strong to control it. I have a pair of Stockli's that are awesome carvers, but all mountain and billy goat work, not as nice. versatility and specialty mutually exclusive.

edit: spelling, thanks.
Edited by davluri - 1/25/10 at 10:46pm
post #131 of 145
LOL.  Title is "Carving = lame", then Jer later says people shouldn't worry about how they look to the folks on the chairlift, do their thing.  He has reeled in a fine catch.
post #132 of 145
Dave, excellent summary.  Intention needs to dictate shape.   Finding yourself in a narrow chute with carving skis means a very demanding, if not scary descent  is in your future.  Being able to engage some edge without "hookup" makes for a lot more options.  I appreciate the guys who can rail a narrow concave line, but there aren't many of them who can handle the speed and G's at the outlet..

Watch out for the bergschrund.
post #133 of 145
The thing I see when a guy I ski with arcs the concave line (Classic Chute) is that he can release the edges a little while the skis are still very much in the fall line, not coming across it much. And it does build speed, but then he holds the speed constant with that touch of edge release. Best I've seen around, making turns that is.
post #134 of 145
I gaped while Tyrone Shoelaces descended Jim's on ice and death cookies. 

No, he didn't carve, but wow!  I'll just say, I was standing with Eric DesLauriers who also declined the line.  Amazing.
Later that day I did the pivot and sideslip of shame trying to get down the headwall off Main chute. 
post #135 of 145
Eric is as good as skiing gets. He has the leisure and self assurance to be particular about conditions by now.
post #136 of 145
Okay I have a picture of old boot carving in bumps and loose snow combined.  So, wow, some people carve everywhere!  You can see the ski is just in the process of being released from his carve at the start of the next transition and he's reaching to plant his pole.

Old Boot on a bump run at Vail
post #137 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post

Did I mention that Epicski pays me $.25 everytime somebody responds to one of my threads?


5) Why do nearly all of the Epic Carving Cult hail from the Ice Coast?

Jer -- how can I get a gig like that?

I'm sure you don't value my views since I've only been skiing for three years, but the learning phases are still fresh in my mind so I may have some perspective. 

I think carving is emphasized because, for a beginning skier, on a groomed slope, it's an efficient way to get down without flailing or falling.  In fact, for some East Coast groomed or hardpack slopes, even for advanced skiers carving may be the only way to get down the slope while still on your skis. 

For my first two two years I worked primarily on carving, as if that (solely) was skiing.
But what I've realized, after skiing in Utah last Spring (first time skiing in the West) and just last month in Stowe (where they have lots of ungroomed or "partially groomed" slopes) is that having carving as your only move can be limiting, or may not be feasible, or even if feasible may just be a bad idea.  

Example: in Stowe, we were standing on the entry to a glade with a twisty chute at the beginning.  First, all the kids snake down, unencumbered by any preconceptions of the "right" way to ski.  I hesitate, and epic looks at me, reading my mind, and says "Jim, its OK to sideslip down the first ten feet of this."  Which I did, and was fine, and he was right.

So, partial agreement with your opening premise:  I don't think carving is lame, but it's not all there is to skiing, as you said.  And thinking that carving is the "proper" form that one should always strive for can limit your growth and enjoyment as a skier.  

(Apologies to others for "feeding" Jer by partly agreeing with him.)  


 
post #138 of 145

But, really, citing WC skiers such as Darren Ralves, or racers on the circuit as an example of correct technique is a little bit irrelevant, as they ski at a different level than most humans (can you squat 400 pounds?). And when Darren hauls down 75 chute, you will not see railed tracks, though I would agree his turn may be a carved power turn, it is one with varying degrees of edge release.

 
Yeah, that is my point: he can slarve, skivot, or whatever the turns need to be, which are the skills you get from being a racer and learning to apply just enough, but never too much, edge for the conditions. If the terrain so allows, he is likely carving, not skidding.  I wasn't saying that a turn has to be railed all the time, but from a technical standpoint, saying that carving (which comes from a high edge angle where the edge is fully engaged and no loner slipping) a turn is silly is therefore, by definition, saying that all turns have to be skidded (which is a lower edge angle and requires a lower skill level).  Even when skidding, there is good skidding that high-level skiers use (managing edge pressure by keeping edge angles lower than that of what a carve would result in) and bad skidding, which is pushing the hips around and the tails out to the side.  Arcing out a turn (such as in a big, open snow field) is way more fun than pushing your tails and throwing your arms around like some park rat kid skiing without poles (which is rare at Squaw, but way too common around here, and the park rat kids who have never learned to ski get schooled as soon as they are out in real terrain). 

As fast as they saw Rahlves disappear through Chute 75, they may have been carved turns.  Those guys are arcing it out on the Streif course; that section below the Hausberg is a lot steeper than Chute 75, and the upper Karusell is probably the same pitch. 
post #139 of 145
Jer
=
Stir up trouble
Insult a few people
Say it was all a joke and everybody should learn how to laugh
(repeat)

It's fun now that I know the routine!
Jer, I want to bear your children....HAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post

Well, my month in Utah is all paid for thanks to the Epicgapers. Maybe even a Silverton Revenge Trip. In parting, I'd just like to say that nowhere but Gapicski are there such a large number of "skiers" who are so concerned that other annonymous people on the internet think they are expert skiers. What's really hilarious is that people think that because I start a joke thread I'm somehow proclaiming myself to be a superawesomeexpertrockstar skier. If somebody can link to exactly where I ever made any reference to my skiing ability, I'll give all the money back. Perhaps the only thing funnier than the internet experts are the guys who still don't get that I'm a jackass who is joking around 99% of the time. How obvious do I have to be?


Stop

taking

your

self

so

seriously

.

post #140 of 145
It is just possible that 75 chute is so buffed out that a WC skier could arc all the way down, and shut er down at the Mountain Run. In that condition, the run would be akin to a race course in perfect slipped groom. But if the run is in its normal condition, no man on earth can risk that speed as there are traversed ruts, cross bumps, and rediculous ruts that are never found on a WC race course.

Skiing is totally condition based, and sometimes we get to enjoy carving, sometimes wide open speeds, sometimes not.
post #141 of 145
Jer is IRIE!

He loves to stir up the $hit
post #142 of 145
A plaque at Epic HQ??  Screw that!!!  text (where it says "instructor" or "moderator") that says something like Best Skier

Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoMan View Post

I say it's time for a carve-off. Everyone concerned with who has the most knowledge and skill can submit video of them skiing. A simple forum vote determines the winner. The winner receives an official "Blades of Glory" award and has a plaque installed in their honor at Epic Ski HQ.


 
post #143 of 145
Sorry, but I missed most of this thread because I was busy skiing.

Con somebody give me the Cliff Notes?  thanks.
post #144 of 145
The notes would start with: A farce in the tradition of taming of the shrew.

People who think that all experts only carve were dissed a little.  Those who claimed that a range of smearing and sliding turns are needed in steep narrow terrain were dissed a little and told they needed to learn how to ski wtih higher edge angles.

Jer took some shots across the bow, by those accusing him of a lack of neutrality on the subject.

It was said that lame is as lame does.
And that's it. sound familiar?
post #145 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post

Sorry, but I missed most of this thread because I was busy skiing.

Con somebody give me the Cliff Notes?  thanks.
4 days in Utah last week? Weak excuse.
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