or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

din?

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Hi, I am 5 feet 5 250 pounds.  I am a intermediate -advanced but am not too agressive.  I took my skis and boots to a local shop and had the bindings of my new skis/bindings adjusted to my boots.  Even tho I was skiing expert runs last year (had injury which caused me to put on weight, so am more int right now) I am not very aggressive so I told shop I am a level 2.  They set the din to 10.  I was skiing today, and fell.  I was going slow and fell forward.  My left leg didnt come out of my ski at first, and my heel came up like 2 inches up the boot (like 1/3rd the way OUT OF MY BOOT) before my ski came off.  I was on the snow for a while because my knee hurt, finally made it down but have a strained knee.  I dont have alot of money so usually just do my bindings myself, I think in the past I have set them to like 8.  I paid like $50 to have my bindings done and new skis "tuned".   The shop had me sign something that they couldnt test the binding because they didnt have the equipment (think pressure testing?  Stress testing?  Something like that).  Was my din set correctly?
 
post #2 of 20
The Din setting is determined by:

-Weight (Heavy High Din)
-Skill Level / Usage (High level or Race Jumping etc High Din)
-Tibia width (big knees, higher setting)

It looks to me 9-10 would be normal (i used that when i was 20-30 and 180pounds and more agressive), most likely, though with your injury i would go down to 8.

For me i am approx 6 feet, 200 pounds i keep them around 7-8, and i have 2 damaged knees and i wear mueller hg81 ski braces to keep those in line and prevent future dammage.

Nevertheless, if you can pull your foot allmost out of the boot the buckles are way too loose.

The test rig you talk about uses torque to press the ski boot out of the binding and test the din setting accordingly, rarely see one.
post #3 of 20
 Agreed about your boot.  The fact that the boot is too loose means that the torque on the binding was lower as the boot/foot connection "failed" first in effect and thus the binding was given less force to react to until your heel came up.
post #4 of 20
Thread Starter 
hi, thanks for responding.  But my boots were very tight.  Had someone due them for me too so they were very tight.  I feel forward and my bindings should of released but the didnt.  My heel coming up a inch or so was a result of my din being too high, not the boots too loose.  So a din of 8 or 9.  8 due to the injury?  Any other opinions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivo Verhaar View Post

The Din setting is determined by:

-Weight (Heavy High Din)
-Skill Level / Usage (High level or Race Jumping etc High Din)
-Tibia width (big knees, higher setting)

It looks to me 9-10 would be normal (i used that when i was 20-30 and 180pounds and more agressive), most likely, though with your injury i would go down to 8.

For me i am approx 6 feet, 200 pounds i keep them around 7-8, and i have 2 damaged knees and i wear mueller hg81 ski braces to keep those in line and prevent future dammage.

Nevertheless, if you can pull your foot allmost out of the boot the buckles are way too loose.

The test rig you talk about uses torque to press the ski boot out of the binding and test the din setting accordingly, rarely see one.

 
post #5 of 20
I can't really give you a DIN setting without your boot sole length, but 10 sounds like it's in the right ball park.

Bindings save legs.  The thing is, a slow fall doesn't release the bindings as well as a sudden impact.   If they set the bindings to save your knees from strains during slow falls in every direction, the bindings wouldn't be able to keep you in when you had normal skiing loads. 

Your boots may be very tight in some places, but there is no way you would be able to move your heel up an inch, let alone two, if they were tight in all the right places, unless there was something very very weird going on with the fat between your heel and your knee. The heel pocket and ankle bone should be clamped in.  I can remember taking off my race boots with the buckles undone on a cold day, it was touch and go not to give myself a hernia, a DIN of 20 wouldn't have resisted the pull required.  I'm lucky I didn't brake my feet; thank God for car heaters.

Still, if you have doubts about your bindings, then it is worth it to get them torque tested at a shop that does that.  You might want to get them serviced there too while you're at it.
Edited by Ghost - 1/23/10 at 5:25am
post #6 of 20
steveys  -  Here is an online resource for getting an idea of the right DIN setting.  I also set my own, but have never had an inappropriate release.  Hope this helps. 

http://www.dinsetting.com/

 
post #7 of 20
Same here. I also think if your boots were "tight" then they are too big. I have a hard enough time trying to get my foot up and out of the boot when I want to. I can't imagine my foot moving 3" inside the boot without a part of me breaking first.
post #8 of 20
There is absolutely NO WAY that someone 5' 5" tall set as a Type II skier has a DIN of 10. No way.  The bindings are set incorrectly.
post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

There is absolutely NO WAY that someone 5' 5" tall set as a Type II skier has a DIN of 10. No way.  The bindings are set incorrectly.
 
Looks like Whiteroom wins the prize.

You can look it up for yourself.

http://www.dinsetting.com/
post #10 of 20
 Your boots are too big.  My heel can't move at all in my boot.  Thank You Skiing In Jackson for that great Intuition cook.  Your DIN also seems high.
post #11 of 20
Stop with all the "your boots are too big" comments. That is not the issue here, a DIN setting of 10 is probably 4 too high, I'll bet 6 or 6.5 is correct. 

A simple question was asked: Is this DIN correct?

A simple answer is available: No. end of discussion.
post #12 of 20
Geeze Whiteroom,
I already awarded you the prize.  What do you want? a hero biscuit?

DIN likely too high.  Plug in your data to the calculator or look it up an on-line chart.  
post #13 of 20
I've seen and experienced foot movement in 'race fit' boots under severe strain. Your foot is a bag of bones wrapped in a meat sock, it can do some pretty weird sh*t if stressed even a little. From the information given, 5'5", 250lbs, type II skier it's easy to tell what his DIN setting shouldn't be. We need his BSL and age to give a correct DIN, but his heel moving isn't important in this case, it does not indicate improper boot fit.

You guys aren't too sure if the DIN is wrong... but you know his boots don't fit.  This is why this site is called 'Gapicski'. 
Edited by Whiteroom - 1/23/10 at 8:08am
post #14 of 20
Thread Starter 
I am 38, dont know what bsl is, but I have a mondo 25 dalbello mx super boot.  My boot is snug on my feet, I do not have any wiggle room.  I think I will have the shop change the dins to 8.  It was also helpful that the type of fall I had is not really what din's are to help you with.  Thanks everyone for the helpful advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

I've seen and experienced foot movement in 'race fit' boots under severe strain. Your foot is a bag of bones wrapped in a meat sock, it can do some pretty weird sh*t if stressed even a little. From the information given, 5'5", 250lbs, type II skier it's easy to tell what his DIN setting shouldn't be. We need his BSL and age to give a correct DIN, but his heel moving isn't important in this case, it does not indicate improper boot fit.

You guys aren't too sure if the DIN is wrong... but you know his boots don't fit.  This is why this site is called 'Gapicski'. 
post #15 of 20
Whiteroom is on point.

These "guestimates" others offered are good examples of the wishy washy aspects of our sport.  And that translates to DNGR.  You can add the vowels.


As the chart goes, the values that pertain include:
Your age (50 and over your DIN comes down)
Your weight.
Your height.
The level at which YOU rate yourself. (There is usually a profile offered but you pick.)  This is somewhat subjective and varying opinions exist but usually Level 1 is for beginners and very cautious skiers and possibly folks who have had an injury in the past.
Level 2 is for intermediates and usually includes advanced skiers as well.
Level 3 is for experts and/or for aggressive skiers. 

And finally, your boot sole length.  Nearly every boot has a noted length on it posted usually on the heel in mm's.  A 25 mondo will be approximately 295 + or - .  Now get this, the smaller the boot the tendency is for the DIN to go up.  It takes more force to retain a boot which is smaller. Picture trying to hold a boot onto a ski if it was the size of the head of a pin!  This explains why, for example,that a woman who is petite but a pretty good skier might have a DIN equal to or perhaps higher than her bigger (and perhaps older) husband. 

Since the chart uses the line, whichever is higher up (lower DINS) for weight and height, in your case the height line would predominate over the weight line.  Therefore, you theoretically could put on (but please don't!) another 100 pounds and your DIN would not change since your "height" value would over rule it in a sense.  This would keep your DIN somewhat lower.

My guess is that the fellow who set you at DIN 10 level 2 considered your weight and not your height and (without the chart in front of me) possibly considered you a level 3 as well. 

In the meantime I sure would like to see your boot and foot.  As you describe it your heel lift seems excessive but under force as previously noted strange things can happen.  A proper fitting should take place.  If for example you have a very narrow heel that might account for the movement.  In addition, no mention, (or did I miss it?) was made of whether you have a footbed/orthotic in your boot.  I consider a footbed to be perhaps the best safety device you can purchase.  It would certainly improve the interface between your foot and the boot and thereby minimizing the wobble inside the boot and as a result will facilitate an effective release should you take a fall. A footbed should improve your proprioception as well and thereby improve your skiing.  Of late I make the analogy to putting air in your tires to maximize your efficiency and effectiveness. Pump them up! Forces would transfer with less 'slop' as it were and actually get that boot out of the binding cleanly.  Lets think of the extreme.  If you put on your boot without buckling it and step into the binding and start skiing and you fall, do you think the boot is more or less likely to release? 

I don't mean to sound patronizing but I'll state point blank that I'm very direct with my female customers on this point. "BUCKLE YOUR BOOTS SNUGLY!" (Men too.  I relate the need to put them on snugly!) I've had numerous women who have come in complaining that after a fall their boots did not release from the bindings.  "Oh," I say, "lets go try on your boots just the way you like to wear them."  I sit them down and the only difference in this case from my normal routine is that I have THEM put them on and buckle them totally themselves.  It has been my observation that they DO NOT put the buckles on passing a "loose" point because they "want to be comfortable!"  Three catch clicks further with my manipulation and they don't complain but they are safer. 

Now why some skiers seem inclined to "crank up" their DINS has always escaped me.  They say they come out but they will crank them up even with a new set of skis and bindings.  There is no apparent science or logic to their actions that I can discern.  I've swapped skis on the hill with pals who have the same boots and size and weight and height and theoretically the same DIN and yet they will come out after only a turn or two. I'll go for seasons without a release.  I've been told I ski very smoothly but all the time?  Perhaps.  It may be that I'm more careful to insure that my boots are actually in the bindings.  That is, I clean them off, often with a scraper before I step in.  Not a bad habit to consider.  So, if you feel the need to crank them up, please be conservative about it. 


The hill you are on also comes into play. I often ask skiers who seem to arbitrarily rate themselves a level 3 where they ski.  If a local 300 foot hill I will tel them, "You know. I'm not concerned about you releasing at MACH 3. But I am concerned about you releasing in a slow twisting fall after some little kid cuts you off as you approach the chair lift.  This is often the source of knee injuries.  With perspective sometimes comes reason. Many will ask for a lower level upon reconsideration. 

In summary;
Trust the math. The DIN chart is based on applied physics. (I'll let someone else tell you what DIN stands for.)
Trust your boot fitter and tech.  BUT WATCH HIM.
Keep your ego under surveillance.
Consider getting a footbed, at least a good generic one and possibly a heel lift.  (This arouses arguments but may actually provide for you an improved mechanical advantage.)
HAVE FUN.

EJL
 

post #16 of 20
By the Way DIN stands for Deutsches Institut fur Normung "German Institute for Standardisation" 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsches_Institut_für_Normung

BSL stands for Boot Sole Length this is a number stamped usually on the side of the heel. it is the length of the sole in mm

Now there is also another factor determining if your binding will release late and that is a to high FP or Forward Pressure. This is not the Same as the DIN binding setting, It is a Indicator telling you the BSL has been set correctly for the binding (might not be available on all bindings, but my Marker IPT 14.0 has them. Basic setting a too small BSL will give a high FP (indicator is gone) and a too large BSL will give a low FP (indicator is fully visible) the correct BSL will show the FP indicator partly
Looks like this on my Marker Wideride 14.0:

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/79107/installing-marker-ipt-wideride-bindings-on-volkl-ac50-s-question

On different binding it might look different or work different.

And yes that should normally be checked by the skishop together with the din setting. which is too high anyhow. Try the dinsetting url it looks like that is realy ok.


post #17 of 20
Your boot is too big, but the DIN isn't dramatically wrong.  If your 250, that might be a little bit high, but you DEFINITELY shouldn't be skiing on anything lower than 8.  I would say 8.5 or 9 would be good.
 
post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastskier44 View Post

Your boot is too big, but the DIN isn't dramatically wrong.  If your 250, that might be a little bit high, but you DEFINITELY shouldn't be skiing on anything lower than 8.  I would say 8.5 or 9 would be good.
 

Actually the DIN is quite like way too high.  The charts don't take weight into account if your are under the height limit.  He could weigh 3000 lbs, and the DIN from the chart would be limited by his height. 

Not that that makes any logical sense to me, but it is what it is.
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveys View Post

I am 38, dont know what bsl is, but I have a mondo 25 dalbello mx super boot.  My boot is snug on my feet, I do not have any wiggle room.  I think I will have the shop change the dins to 8.  It was also helpful that the type of fall I had is not really what din's are to help you with.  Thanks everyone for the helpful advice.

No.  Take your boots and skis back to the shop and talk with the manager.  Look at the ski binding setting chart with the manager.  If you have your paperwork from last time where you put down your specs and they wrote down the setting, great.  I think your bindings should be set to something near 6.  Hey--I'm 6', 200#, Type III skier, Mondo 29 boots, over 50, and I'm just right set at 6.5.  Your boots probably should fit a skier with men's size 5 or 6 street shoes.  My street shoes are 13s for those 29 boots, and they fit just right.
post #20 of 20
 I wear 8 1/2 street shoes and my boots are 25.5 (previously 26.5 which were comfy but too big.)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs