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GS vs SL boot setup

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
I know that most top racers have different boots for different events. My question is, how does setup of the boots typically differ for different events?
post #2 of 19
I ran a ZC cuff and ZA bottom for speed and a ZC Cuff/ZB Bottom for tech. Typically I liked having more feel in the faster event and just raw stiffness for SL and GS just so I would get a lot of response out of it immediatly.

Is that what you were looking for?
post #3 of 19
Some use essentially the exact same boot, but a softer flex as TMAS mentions, or a boot "cut" to have a softer flex and less rebound,  for speed. Some Lange skiers actually use the older design in a softer flex for speed....particularly the women. Some of the USST women do. No idea of what LV was in when she was on Rossi {Lange}. Depending on a skiers physiology, and stance, they may cant a tech boot differently to give it a bit more quickness edge to edge {or to minimize that quickness in a speed boot}. Many also ski speed in a wider stance, so cuff alignment is altered. And ramp angles can be changed, by messing with the boot board. Some like a bit more pressure on the front of the ski in speed, so the front of the boot boeard gets shaved down. Some speed boots are wedged a bit more inside the shell, to promote a bit less of an upright stance in a speed boot. What works for one skier may not for another, and for those that are doing this, the number of hours spent with their techs refining this stuff is enormous. And some guys are always fiddling with it. It also needs to dovetail with the binding, plate, and shim set up.  That's my general understanding, but I may be a bit off. Maybe one of the boot guru's will weigh in.

Interesting that one of this generation's racers most tuned into his equipment, and constantlly working with it, Bode, has recently stated that he's using the same boots for all events. I believe that in the past, he's has different SL, GS and speed set-ups. In fact, he's had multiple boots for of those three.... So one pair of boots is a big change. In think that when Bode was in a Dobermann and on Fischer, he was real dialed in {that wa smany years ago}, and he seems to have been searching and working hard on all of this since....particularly with his SL set up. He's been on three different brands since.
post #4 of 19
I don't know how long it took me to figure out that I could get MORE forward pressure with boots which had less forward lean.

If the boot is already cranked forward, there is nowhere to go but the back seat.  The boots I have now allow for a huge range, and I still like them pretty much forward, but if I want to give the tip a quick slalom like jab, I'd stand them up straighter.
post #5 of 19
Ive been working on this same issue for many years with no real conclusion. Im in Dobermans and at the moment the spoiler is back in. For both SL and GS. Had it out previously but put it back in after taking a few bad falls last year. Getting in the back seat. But that could be many reasons. Going to experiment with this tomorrow.

But when it comes to canting the wc skiers I talked to were on less canting on their GS boots. Kind of logic if you think about it.
post #6 of 19

I run a WC boot for tech, with Both rivets in the back, and then I have a matching pair with a low stack in the front and a high stack in the back... With a little more flex then the tech, all legal stacks though!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I ride:

 

Tecnica Diablo WC

Volkl Race Tiger 193 GS

Volkl Race Tiger 166 SL

 

Volkl Race Tiger 208 SG

Volkl Race Tiger 216 DH

Volkl Race Tiger 211 SG

post #7 of 19


What he said.  For me, I can cover all the bases with an Atomic RaceTech CS 130, World Cup powerstrap, just by varying how much or little I wind down on the top buckles and the power strap.  It hasn't been necessary for me to go in the direction that TMAS29 has, but that would be my first move...a setup for tech, a different one for speed.

 

What you're talking about is one step beyond that, which is a setup for GS and a different one for SL.  This is kind of what a lot of the top WC guys are getting into, and Ted Ligety, in a recent article, said that the SL setup was the most difficult to fine tune, and Bode is not going to ski SL in the upcoming World Championships because he hasn't been  able to get his SL setup dialed in. 

 

So there's a case for going to a unique setup for SL...but only if you're a professional comedian...joke, ha ha, only if you know what you're doing, and have the resources (i. e., lots of pieces and parts, a tech to set everything up for you) to do so.  The WC SL setup, from what I hear, is a whole lot more than just boot stiffness.  It's canting, which pair of skis is optimum, where the bindings ought to be placed, boot ramp angles, canting, blah blah blah.  There are a bunch of guys in this forum...TMAS29 being a starting point...who can open this door for you, but to find out if this is something you really want to pursue, I'd try to get hooked up with your manufacturer(s) of choice top tech reps, where whoever's supporting the Nor Ams is probably a good opening bet...

 

biggrin.gif
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMAS29 View Post

I ran a ZC cuff and ZA bottom for speed and a ZC Cuff/ZB Bottom for tech. Typically I liked having more feel in the faster event and just raw stiffness for SL and GS just so I would get a lot of response out of it immediatly.

Is that what you were looking for?
post #8 of 19

I'd imagine that you might do the following:

 

-stiffer in tech, especially SL

 

-slightly overcanted in SL

-slightly undercanted in speed (maybe, probably not)

 

-more forward lean and lower external ramp while maintaining ROM in ankle + moving bindings further back in SL

-opposite of above in speed, but proportionally much closer to GS

 

-(slightly) more ROM in speed, less in SL

post #9 of 19

Unless you have a lot of time to spend on two sets of boots I would not change canting from one event to the other. In theory it makes sense to be edged more for tech events, but in reality, even the best in the world have trouble making the switch between boot setups. If you haven't spent a lot of time with both setups, it can really affect your skiing. IMO, if you're running a stiffer boot for tech and softer in speed, the same canting and fore/aft setups should be used on the boot (fine-tune fore/aft at the ski/binding interface), unless of course you're spending 5 hours a day or more on the snow training and have time to dial both setups and get your body accustomed to both setups. Stiffness is easy though. I'm currently running two identical Fischer boots; one at 150 and one around 130.

post #10 of 19

Some of my top racers have two pairs, although the thought process is a little different that what others have said (and this is purely a preference thing, I suppose).  They tend to have softer boots for the tech events and their much stiffer boot for the speed events.

post #11 of 19

I did a good amount of reading about the pro's ski boots recently.   An insider at Head revealed that the boots that their pros use are exactly the same as is available to the consumers, but of course dialed in for them as yours are undoubtedly for you.   In the case of Head boots, its easy to see which ones they are using at each event since currently the stiffest are clear, the 130's are gray, and the softest are red  (in the recent past all were red).   Clear for slalom, gray for speed.   Specifically Bode's boots have an extra slab of plastic riveted to the tongue/flap of his gray boots.

 

But the bottom line is whatever works best for you....at least that is what I have been told and it seems to be true even for the elite guys since you will see all sorts of gear used by them.  After all Bode started to win races on shaped recreational skis, while everyone else was on straight racing skis.

 

 

Check this site out, use a page translator if you cannot read Italian:   http://forum.ornellosport.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2822&hilit=head

post #12 of 19

I run Tecnica R H17's (Flex 150) for SL/GS, and my souped-up-on-crack Tecnica Diablo 90s (several rivets added, as well as modified buckle and strap setup) for speed (those are more like 120/130 flex, with a lower cuff).

post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post

I did a good amount of reading about the pro's ski boots recently.   An insider at Head revealed that the boots that their pros use are exactly the same as is available to the consumers, but of course dialed in for them as yours are undoubtedly for you.



You're right. There are only a few more guys skiing in the 160+ flex boots. Since the boots are available to everyone, it is actually more interesting to learn about what their setups are - or at least where they are starting from - and why. When you're watching races this year - watch for close-ups of the boots - especially on guys like Ligety, Hirscher,and the french GS duo whose names are escaping me right now... Sometimes it is easier to get shots of the women because they move a little slower.

post #14 of 19

It's all about what works best and what helps you ski... 

The guys at surefoot and tecnica will build the boot for you and then you test it in july at hood on the steeps and flats.... and then have fine tuning done at copper in october...

post #15 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by nblaserUSST View Post

It's all about what works best and what helps you ski... 

The guys at surefoot and tecnica will build the boot for you and then you test it in july at hood on the steeps and flats.... and then have fine tuning done at copper in october...


Have you seen the new Technica that is supposedly coming in 2012? I've heard it is a completely different boot.

post #16 of 19

No idea.... I have my boots built off of a different mold, as do many high level racers... Ill post a picture at some point showing the differences between commercially available boots and those that are the pride of the race community.

post #17 of 19

It seems to me the cuff angle side to side would need to be  different for speed. When you are spending the majority of the time in a tuck with a wider stance it is really difficult to keep off of both inside edges. Seems like they would move the cuffs farther in from neutral so you could push against the lateral side of the cuff to keep off the inside edges. . If your boots are set up neutral and you get in your bully with your skis hip width apart (or wider tucking), it is really tough to stay off of the medial cuff?

 

Yes? No?

post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by nblaserUSST View Post

No idea.... I have my boots built off of a different mold, as do many high level racers... Ill post a picture at some point showing the differences between commercially available boots and those that are the pride of the race community.


I wasn't referring to the commercially available boot wink.gif... word is that the 2011 boot you're likely in is going to make it to production in 2012... or at least some distant cousin of it... I've heard a bit about it, but not seen one yet. I'd definitely be interested in pics when you have the chance; and interested in boot board, ramp, and cuff angle specs...

 

post #19 of 19


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post

I did a good amount of reading about the pro's ski boots recently.   An insider at Head revealed that the boots that their pros use are exactly the same as is available to the consumers, but of course dialed in for them as yours are undoubtedly for you.   In the case of Head boots, its easy to see which ones they are using at each event since currently the stiffest are clear, the 130's are gray, and the softest are red  (in the recent past all were red).   Clear for slalom, gray for speed.   Specifically Bode's boots have an extra slab of plastic riveted to the tongue/flap of his gray boots.

 

But the bottom line is whatever works best for you....at least that is what I have been told and it seems to be true even for the elite guys since you will see all sorts of gear used by them.  After all Bode started to win races on shaped recreational skis, while everyone else was on straight racing skis.

 

 

Check this site out, use a page translator if you cannot read Italian:   http://forum.ornellosport.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2822&hilit=head


At the Worlds this year, it looked like some of the head racers (Aksel, specifically) had a fancy new shell I had never seen.. it was white-ish to faintly mettalic... I saw him (via Universal Sports streams) wear this in the downhill and super G.  Is this next year's model they wanted to drum up interest over?

 

If the guy at HEAD is providing accurate info, I think that is cool that the HEAD raptors consumers buy are the same boots the pro racers wear.  It would be nice if more companies did the same for consumer race skis.

 

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