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Begining skiers and inside ski - Page 2

post #31 of 37
I think the wording is a bit tough to execute here. Turns are for speed control. Anything you do to scrub or moderate you speed *is* speed control. Speed control is done through tactical means. I think what Bob was getting at, is that we shouldn't point our skis across the hill, and slide sideways to control speed. But a carved turn that moves us across the fall line, and up the hill, is a turn and it is speed control. It is one method of speed control. I don't necessarily agree that even skidded turns are a "destructive" method of skiing, teaching, or speed control. It is a tactical means to get down the hill at a speed with which you are comfortable. On very steep terrain (very steep could mean a groomed intermediate run to a timid level 4 skier, right?) skidded turns are an effective way to maintain control and mental piece of mind. I would certainly much rather have Bubba (all 310lbs of him) skid a turn to control his speed, than to run into a 6 year old kid, wouldn't you? Likewise, carving a turn is also a tactical move to do whatever it is that you want to do on a hill. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to ski. The only "destructive" way to ski is to do something inherently dangerous. Certainly, there are more efficient ways to get down the hill, and way that are more economic in movement. However, this is recreation. We are not working to beat the Herminator down the hill. If we are to say that skidding is "destructive" then that could be translated into, skiing powder, bumps, crud, ice, or anything other than perfect groomed terrain is destructive, because it is less efficient and more work to ski those other types of terrain. I will not, ever, advocate the grooming of all inbound terrain. I will also not tell people that it is destructive to hike for your turns because it is less efficient than taking a lift. Of course, a helicopter is probably the most efficient way, so maybe we should all be carried to the top that way. I say do what you want to do, where you want to do it, as long as you are safe about it (safe to others - if you want to risk your own neck, go for it). If you want to ski fast on less steep hills, and feel the sensation of a purely carved turn, then yes, skidding to control speed is contrary to your goals. We should be teaching people how to use their edges to make the skis do what they want them to do, and teach them many different ways of getting down the hill. By doing this, they can decide for themselves whether skidding or carving 180 degree turns down the hill is the way they want to control their speed. I'll also offer this; carving to control speed could be even more destructive than skidding, as you may end up traveling at too high a speed for the conditions and running into someone or something. That's destructive. Now, granted, Bob did say "technically destructive". But I still hold to my comments. Turning to control speed is technically correct and teaches proper edge use. Afeterall, in a level 1 lesson (beginner), we teach people to turn to control speed and stop, as opposed to using a breaking wedge. I hope (and, of couse believe) that Bob is not advocating the Power Wedge as a means of speed control.

So, Bob, how about explaining what you really meant when you said that turning to control speed is technically destructive? If not by turning, then how?<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by JohnH (edited April 26, 2001).]</FONT>
post #32 of 37
Thread Starter 

You said,

>If that means turning until you are actually going up hill for a little then your CM is actually moving against gravity you will slow down not the actual process of turning.<

I believe you're separating the turn from the line. You can ski a slow line fast or a fast line slowly. That's fine, but to say that turns have nothing to do with speed control seems to be misleading. I see what Bob is getting at, you don't want people to think of turns as a means of slowing down, but you do make turns to control your speed. Hmmm... As JohnH said, and dchan your example of turning up the hill, we teach people "turn up the hill to stop". So here a turn is definitely used for speed control.

>So, turns are not speed control, How you use the turn is.<

Still sounds like a turn. I get your point (I believe you're saying it's the shape of the turn, not the act of turning) but somehow this kind reminds me of the "I didn't inhale" argument.

I guess the upshot is separating the verb
"to turn" from the noun "turn". I wonder if in German they have different words for the verb and noun to make it a more precise description. Ott? (I guess he's left the building). See that's why they're better racers.....

I still really want to hear the "official" explanation.

<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Tog (edited April 26, 2001).]</FONT>
post #33 of 37
I see it as,
Instructors and others of us that are better skiers tell everyone that to slow down (speed control) turn. This, I think is the "myth" (and yes I think it is destructive to say it that way) that BobB is talking about. Until Bob happens back this way though we are all taking shots in the dark.
I'm waiting to hear the offical explaination too.
post #34 of 37
of course "just" turning doesn't control speed (much), but finishing a turn does. A lot of people who lack speed control will turn a lot, but will never finish a turn, and therefore their speed gets away from them. Even in a beginner lesson, when I teach people to turn to control speed, I teach them to finish a turn until you are going slow enough for your comfort level, or until you stop.
post #35 of 37
This is silly.
post #36 of 37
I'm sorry you feel that way.
post #37 of 37
JohnH - an excellent post! There is more than one correct way to ski, regardless of what the PSIA says (who once maintained that the skidded turn was the only correct way to ski). You do what you have to do to control your speed and direction. The better it works, and the less energy it takes, the better it is. Whether it meets the requirements of the Form and Style Police, I care not a whit.
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