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New (to me) Repair Method

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
So I have an Air Welder that I am ok with, a P-Tex gun and of course drip candles.  The thing is that my K2 Outlaws have a mess of damage at the front contact point from the Gondola at Mammoth.  It is just barely too small where the skis fit in.  When they wedge it in and then yank it out, they make a mess of damage up front.  Nothing deep, but it is more like "death of one thousand cuts" style.  No big deal, but I would like to fix it since I have about 20+ hard days on them already anyway.  I now split the skis so they don't have that problem going forward, but that does nothing about what is already there. 

So rather than try and drip p-tex on a huge surface area (welder is no good for this) or switch my p-tex gun to black from clear (major pain in the ass - I think I need a 2nd gun) I decided to try this Repair Powder from Slidewright

http://www.slidewright.com/proddetail.php?prod=TK5510951&cat=35

Ordered on a Saturday afternoon.  Got it already on Tuesday (today).  Super fast shipping and service as always. 



I will follow up in this thread with my success or failure with this method.  Oh yeah - why did I order the repair candles?  In case I mess up the repair of course! 
post #2 of 13
Glad it got there quickly. I'd be curious to know how a very hard wax works for this purpose compared to the repair powder.
post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post

Glad it got there quickly. I'd be curious to know how a very hard wax works for this purpose compared to the repair powder.

Never really thought of that but it makes sense and would be easier.  Any suggestions from Slidewright for a "very hard wax"? 

I found these
http://www.slidewright.com/proddetail.php?prod=MW0600&cat=21
http://www.slidewright.com/proddetail.php?prod=MW0620&cat=21
post #4 of 13
The Maplus RB Hard is like epoxy it seems when scraping. I melted a bunch into 50 gr 'pucks' for temporary base repairs and I'll bet for stuff like this it'll at least offer a reasonable level of protection. I'll send you one to test drive.
post #5 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post

The Maplus RB Hard is like epoxy it seems when scraping. I melted a bunch into 50 gr 'pucks' for temporary base repairs and I'll bet for stuff like this it'll at least offer a reasonable level of protection. I'll send you one to test drive.

Thanks for the generous offer to send me one.  I am going to order some more stuff in a couple days anyway, so don't waste the shipping.  You can throw it in there or I can just order some the old fashioned way to keep my favorite supply store profitable.   

This brings up maybe a broader question about my (poor?) wax choices anyway so perhaps we can kill two birds here.  100% of my work is on recreational skis / snowboards.  I only work for beer and don't take their money.  I have been pretty cheap about my wax choices over the years since I am not looking to shave seconds and I really don't need to exactly match snow conditions.  A lot of my work is just my idiot pals who damage their gear and then give it to me to fix.  Right now I am using some Maplus white Universal hot wax for most tunes (although I have a couple different Dominator Universal waxes I use from time to time as well).  I think that in light of reading some stuff and thinking about things, I really should be using a hard wax first by itself then scrape and brush that.  Then layer on top something like the White Maplus and scrape and brush that.  This way I get the durability of the hard wax but the benefits of the Universal wax as well.  The different melting points ensure that I would not be messing up the first layer since the 2nd layer is so much lower temp.  

Is this right? Any suggestions?  Should I be spending more on wax? 
        
post #6 of 13
Too late. It's packed and in the shipping pile.

The Universal Hot (white) is a soft, warmer temp wax. You'd get more mileage out of the Universal (green) along with broader temperature range. If you stepped up to the performance grade waxes like P1 or my 'universal and durable' favorite, RB Medium (purple) you'd double the durability which of course, halves the applications required.

Ideally, you prep a base with several cycles of softer wax (RB soft) and then add harder and then the WOTD. I've been having good luck reheating a softer wax a few times with the boards on the bench (no clamps) and then scrape, brush and apply a minimal amount of the RB hard (scrape and brush) once or twice and then the medium for a durable 'universal' glide. The Dominator Zoom is another option, as is the Toko all-in one.
post #7 of 13
Thread Starter 
I'll grab a 250 gram pack or your favorite RB Purple but I thought I would throw in some of your Universal Green as well.  Are you out of stock on the 250 gram green (or 100 for that matter)?  Should I go with some Universal Red instead?  Thanks for all the support either way.  You are far too kind. 
post #8 of 13
I just got a bunch of kilos of the Maplus Universal (green) (250 gr or 100 gr) which will eventually be replaced by Briko-Maplus Universal (red). (I turned off the red and on the green). Same wax, different color. Confusing (I know), but once the transition is complete. The Briko-Maplus labeling will prevail.
post #9 of 13
Toko repair powder is good for shallow repairs.  These are often times only superficial wounds.  It does have the advantage in the respect that when done correctly it will still allow wax penetration, where the other methods won't.  If you try to fix a deeper wound with it, it's not going to work to good. 
Let us know how it goes for you.  Iron temp. over the Mylar is going to be critical.
post #10 of 13
Thread Starter 
This has been a very fun learning process that highlights why I really like ski / snowboard tuning as a hobby.  I have been doing this for years and keep adding to my skills.  This makes not only the end results that much better, but when you are doing it right, it is a lot less effort in getting there as well.  Sorry for the lack of pictures, but another thing I learned is that I suck at taking pictures of ski bases that show anything.  The flash blew everything out so that most of the pictures were just a mess. 

Toko Repair Powder:
I really like the repair this stuff made.  It is very clean and after working and restructuring the area repaired is difficult to tell the difference between where I repaired and where the original base is.  That being said, it did take some practice to get just right.  A couple things that I learned were
  • I needed a lot less than I thought.  The stuff is still p-tex on some level and so it does flow to where it is needed.  This is helped along by the fact that you are pressing it in with the iron on top of the "foil" (see through plastic sheet things) that they give you.  If you use too much it does not heat through as well which would mean you would have to use higher heat / leave it there longer / remove more material afterward. 
  • Work in a smaller area.  This might defeat the purpose I got the stuff for in the first place on some level but I found it was a little tougher to get the repair heated evenly over too large an area.  I erred on the side of "don't burn my bases" since you are working with a 320 F degree iron.  This also meant that if I was not careful I had areas that were perfect and then a couple areas on the edge that pulled away when I scraped.  When I worked in an area that was about 1/3 of the "foil" I had the best results.  You might be able to push that to 1/2 with practice. 
  • Use a really sharp scraper.  This is good advice with any repair I suppose and is really no different here.  I have a ski-visions base planer thing.  While I have been using a glue-scraper that has a really sharp carbide blade on it for removing p-tex, the repair is pretty thin and close to the base already without a lot of excess material.  I sharpened the steel ski-visions blade right before using it and that made for a really clean couple of passes and a nice result.   

I think the application that I used it for is idea for a home repair.  This is due to the fact that it was a large area, but fairly shallow scratches overall.  If you dripped p-tex into the whole area and then scraped it off, I would imagine it would have a negative result on that area being able to accept wax.  This stuff is nice in that it is very much like the original base of the ski in its ability to accept wax.  I didn't experiment on deeper holes, but I would imagine that it would not work that well.  To get the material heated through evenly in a deeper hole would likely require a lot of heat in the area in general which might not be a good thing. 

Very Hard Race Base Wax:
So after all the repairs, I went ahead and waxed the skis with the wax that Alpinord mentioned earlier in the thread.  Very interesting stuff.  I took my time melting this stuff in and used a higher iron setting than I normally would.  I think I was at 300 F or so if I remember right (I should look at the iron again to be sure) and maybe could have been a little higher.  I let it sit for almost 24 hours before scraping.  This is where it was really neat.  The stuff is really hard.  When it comes off, it is like very fine powder instead of curls of wax.  I resharpened my plastic scraper every few passes while I worked on the skis.  It got dull very fast.  After all the scraping, the skis look great!  It is like a fountain of youth for the bases.  Now I can't speak yet firsthand to the durability of the stuff, but I would imagine that it will work great for any of the remaining shallow scratches that I didn't fill with the powder.  I actually left a couple on purpose just to compare how it looks and longer term if it stays.  While I don't think this is something I will use on every tune, when I have to overhaul a pair of skis where I do a lot of base work and have to basically flatten and restructure the whole thing anyway, this stuff seems indispensable.   
post #11 of 13
Sounds like you need to go skiing a bunch to provide testing data.

Good info and if it was me, I probably would have done one ski repair with the Toko Powder and the other with the Maplus Hard to see how they wore over time. Interesting to see how they work side by side. The Hard stuff, is!
post #12 of 13
Thread Starter 
Well - I did a 2nd set of skis with just the Maplus Hard.  They didn't have as much damage, but they will be a good test case.  I will come back and update with any observations I have. 
post #13 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mondak View Post

Well - I did a 2nd set of skis with just the Maplus Hard.  They didn't have as much damage, but they will be a good test case.  I will come back and update with any observations I have. 
 


Thanks for the feed back.  Sound like you had a good expierence with the repair powder.
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