New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

2 pictures to critique

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Ok, time to play, lets rip into two skiers techniques. I know both these guys, and ski with them often. Both I feel are good skiers, bot are working on getting better. What do you, either an instructor or average skier have to say about these two pictures? I understand it is difficult to determine a style or whatever from only one shot of a turn, but lets try.

Conditions of the day, fresh, fairly heavy snow, about a foot, on top of hard ice. Large ice bumps under the snow in both pictures.



post #2 of 21
First Skier:

Sorry but his position basically sucks. Why? Because he is surrounded by beautiful mountains and I am surrounded by a cubicle. So as harsh as this may sound, I find this skier completely in the wrong position (compared to me, of course).

Seriously, this skier look as good as one can expect relative to that steep slope. I cannot imagine any criticism here.

Second Skier:

The arms are back, so I must assume that this individual is a little in the back seat. Of course, he may be fighting for balance, which may have been disrupted by the large hard bumps you describe. He also could be landing a very small jump there, which would also explain the extended position.

All in all the first skier looks better than the second skier (for this particular moment in time).
post #3 of 21
I remember a day exactly like that a few weeks ago. You'd look at the snow and it was so beautiful and seemed like it would be bottomless, until you jumped in and discovered that it was nothing but ice-bumps with a layer of fluff on top so you couldn't tell where the bumps were exactly. And then the sun went away so visibility got even worse. Fun, fun, fun!!!

I'd hate to know what I looked like on that day, so I think these guys were doing fine. Obviously in the second pic the guy needs to get his hands and weight forward - work on trying to correct the balance the second you hit something that throws you back instead of letting the mistake get so big. Easier said than done - it certainly takes some talent in conditions like that. That's one of those things we worked on in Steeps Camp. One of the students commented that our coach never looked out of balance - his reply was that he was nearly always being thrown off balance, but he just caught himself quickly and corrected his body position before it became visible.
post #4 of 21
That first guy, mike, he blows, while the second guy fred rips.
post #5 of 21
I think they look identically like a couple of Michigan State Grads. However, given what they're doing (and how they enjoy doing it) I would say they deserve U. of Michigan honorary degrees. [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]
post #6 of 21
Having watched both of the subjects ski, I think the photographer needs more help with technique than the skiers. :

Bob
post #7 of 21
"Well, I'm not an expert skier, but I'll take a look"...
...which is almost what I said to a young Italian girl who had no Irish in her...

It looks like the first skier has duck tape around his right wrist. Now, while I accept that duck tape is like The Force, I'm not sure if duck tape braclets will ever really take off as a fashion accessory. If, on the other hand, the tape is as a result of taking a mad dog for a walk, then I can understand. While you don't tell us, at a guess the way he is skiing (if indeed the first skier is a male) he must be on Pocket Rockets. For this guy's ability, I seriously hope he's on about a 160 ski, cause I'm not sure if he could handle much more.

As for Groundskeeper Willy in the second one, it's almost like he's telling Tiger how much past the hole his putt has gone. I think his skiing would improve if he were wearing Oakley Wisdom goggles.

To summarise, I'd love to help more, and could these guys use good help, but they look like a couple of freeloaders to me, the kind of guys who would come round to your house, move in, drink your beer (then complain about how bad it tasted), then get annoyed when your friends don't just fall at their feet...

I'd hate to have them as friends.

S
post #8 of 21
Although I don't beleive that making an assumption on someones skiing is a good idea from a picture here's my 2 cents.

The skier in the first photo is rotated in their upper body. This is usually a symptom of a lack of steering with the lower body. As you've mentioned the snow conditions were pretty tough that day so sometimes people use a bit of rotation to help pull their skis around.

The skier in the second photo is obviously out of balance. Why? I can't say. Balance is an action in skiing, not a position. The photo shows a position of being back which is a result, simply putting his hands out in front probably won't fix it, something or a lack of something has created his problem.
post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally posted by Ski Professor:
The skier in the first photo is rotated in their upper body. This is usually a symptom of a lack of steering with the lower body. As you've mentioned the snow conditions were pretty tough that day so sometimes people use a bit of rotation to help pull their skis around.
: This person is anything but over-rotated in the uper body.

[ April 19, 2003, 04:33 AM: Message edited by: TomB ]
post #10 of 21
Quote:
Originally posted by TomB:
: This person is anything but over-rotated in the uper body.
Au contraire mon ami! If you look at the direction his knees are facing compared to the attitude of his upper body with the combination of the tipping/roll of the shoulders you've got yourself a classic rotated stance. If you want to add another symptom you could just look at his hands, his right hand is ahead of his left and he's turning left, and that my friend is most definitely a sign of rotation. As I said it's pretty difficult to make a good assesment from a photo but I'd say that it's due to a lack of steering with the lower body because of the snow conditions.

So, neener, neener, neener! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
post #11 of 21
Fox you're a funny guy.
post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally posted by Ski Professor:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TomB:
: This person is anything but over-rotated in the uper body.
Au contraire mon ami! If you look at the direction his knees are facing compared to the attitude of his upper body with the combination of the tipping/roll of the shoulders you've got yourself a classic rotated stance. If you want to add another symptom you could just look at his hands, his right hand is ahead of his left and he's turning left, and that my friend is most definitely a sign of rotation. As I said it's pretty difficult to make a good assesment from a photo but I'd say that it's due to a lack of steering with the lower body because of the snow conditions.

So, neener, neener, neener! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
</font>[/quote]OK, I think I see your point. My bad. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally posted by Ski Professor:
Although I don't beleive that making an assumption on someones skiing is a good idea from a picture here's my 2 cents.

The skier in the first photo is rotated in their upper body. This is usually a symptom of a lack of steering with the lower body. As you've mentioned the snow conditions were pretty tough that day so sometimes people use a bit of rotation to help pull their skis around.

The skier in the second photo is obviously out of balance. Why? I can't say. Balance is an action in skiing, not a position. The photo shows a position of being back which is a result, simply putting his hands out in front probably won't fix it, something or a lack of something has created his problem.
Must be a slow weekend at the Lake maybe I should be up there. But oh the call of the pedals!
post #14 of 21
Alta, the first guy has a serious problem: rotation, rotation, rotation. The problem is not enough rotation. He needs much more rotation at the waist, hips, knees and ankles (feet too if he can figure out how to do it). He could use a little counter rotation at the shoulders and neck, but that is not near the problem as the rotation. Did I mention he needs to rotate? Deal with it.

The second guy has, well, a personal problem we parents call prairie dog'in. Fear has gripped this man so deeply that his bowel is prairie dog'in, which is to say leaving skid marks in his shorts. It looks to me like he has just regained control of the wild prairie dog and is trying to "keep it together". I am just glad I am not his launderer. Did I mention depends? Wear 'em.

Did you have fun? Did you ski a run for me? How did I do?

Mark
post #15 of 21
OK. I'll bite.

Skier number one looks like he's in those unsupportive leather boots that were state of the art about 50 years ago. He seems to be feeling the need to lock up his whole body in order to be able to turn it with a movement that begins with his hands. On the other hand, maybe he just remembers the good ole days and can't let go.
I'll bet Hannes Schneider looked just like this guy, especially the hat.

Number two guy looks loose and crazy, probably number one's son. Didn't listen much to dad and just kinda went his own way. No telling whether back is his characteristic position or just a momentary catchup. I'll bet he flexes in all the places number one likes to lock up. Flings his arms about to regain balance because there is so much movement in his skiing. His stance is anything but frozen. Would be nice to see a couple more frames.
post #16 of 21
Both of these guys are "experts". [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally posted by arcadie:
Number two guy looks loose and crazy, probably number one's son.
That is the scariest thought I have read here - the thought that the guy in the first photo would reproduce! I mean, the guy in the second photo may be the result of an "un-natural union", but, come on, he couldn't be No. 1's son!

S
post #18 of 21
My impressions are more mundane that WTFH's!

First guy reminds me of guys who use a bit of strength when they ski, especially when coping with conditions they aren't happy with. So his body has locked into one strong unit, and maybe he's tipping his upper body into the turn to make it feel stronger. I'd like to see a little film of him there, to see if he's using his shoulders and arms in this.

Second guy's skis have decided to go off without him, and he's just realised it...
post #19 of 21
Outide arms are up, directing balance away from their feet. 2nd guy can just get away with more 'cuz it's flatter. Moving and keeping their elbows ahead of their ribcages would do a lot for both of them too.

Get those outside arms down and move 'em with those arcs boys!

[ April 22, 2003, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: Roto ]
post #20 of 21
This is too funny. This is why I don't take lessons. Of course, I know some of you are kidding, the others...

AltaSkier...if that's your really real name....I would say you need to rotate....180 degrees and ski that facker switch. Maybe pull a sweet daffy...I heard the other dude can do them. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
post #21 of 21
Just looked at the first photo again.

Why has that snowboarder got poles?



S
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching