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Inside Leg Extension Technique - Page 4

post #91 of 98
If I understand this discussion correctly this is more or less the same technique as active extention off the new outside leg.

If so, I think it is related to the idea that outside leg dominance is something we make happen, not an affect. However, when I tried to point out that this technique was notably absent from Bob's famous "perfect turn" post, I encountered a flood of disagreement. I was assured that steering from the femurs was more effective and that in practice it was difficult to force the (new) outside ski to bend early in the turn.

The context of my observations was in trying to understand why Lito's active pressure managements was such a bad thing.

It interesting that Lito suggests that pressure transfer is a cause and angulation is an affect, whereas others see it the other way around.
post #92 of 98
James much of the seeming contradictions and discrepancies comes from the fact that weight and pressure are not the same but often used to mean the same thing. Weight and pressure can also be artificially shifted around for different drills to work on different skills.

Generally speaking, we want weight to move towards the inside ski and pressure to build under the outside ski. Depending on the dynamics of a turn, weight and pressure can be the same, or different between feet at crossover.

Here is where the confusion comes in. Most skiers move weight and pressure to the outside ski to start the turn and then move the weight to the inside of the turn. A two step rotary pushoff if you would like.

Taking pressure away from a ski, moves the weight towards that ski and builds pressure under the opposite ski. If you take pressure away from the new inside ski, the weight will move towards the new inside ski and pressure towards the new outside ski.

Moving the weight over a ski to increase pressure, is the opposite of what we want. Pressure and weight are moving in the same direction. This is the classic weight shift.

Since we want weight and pressure to move in opposite directions, we must decrease pressure (lighten a ski) to move weight. This is true for both the inside and outside skis. If we move our weight over the outside ski, we have increased the pressure but moved the weight in the wrong direction. If we move all of our weight over the inside ski, to increase pressure at crossover, we have once again moved weight and pressure in the same direction which is equally bad.

More confusion comes in with drills designed to work on different things. Isolating some skill and movements in order to allow work on other skills is the goal of drills. Often weight and pressure will be aligned so as to eliminate the constantly changing dynamics between the two so that we can work on other things like edging.

Examples would be Harbs Phantom move, where 100% of the weight and pressure are on the outside ski verses his weighted release drills, where 100% of weight and pressure is on the inside ski. The weight and pressure are aligned over opposite skis in these drills to work on tipping the skis. This is not the way we want to ski but as a drill, isolates the pressure weight relationships so that ski tipping may be worked on.

The relationship of pressure and weight changes constantly throughout the turn and can be drastically altered for different intents or dynamics of a turn. Herein lays another area for confusion. Talking about the relationship of pressue and weight in a static exercise can be very confusing if the recipient doesn't understand where in the turn the static relationship occures. A snapshot of some point in the turn. If you are confused in a clinic, ask the clinician where in the turn his pressure/weight relationship applies.

In general, the new outside leg is actively extended in the last third of the previous turn to get long and build pressure but, the weight is moveing towards the new inside ski as a result of relaxing the new inside leg to decrease the pressure under the old outside foot. If not, the weight would simply stay over the new outside leg adding to the building pressure and the extension would be vertical. This happens a lot.

Bottom line, pressure and weight are not the same and generally move in opposite directions because of specific movements we do to make the do so.

[ February 13, 2004, 08:27 AM: Message edited by: Pierre ]
post #93 of 98
Pierre - Wonderful explanation! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Tom / PM
post #94 of 98
PM for you're enjoyment I almost included the fact that the concentrated center point of weight is the same as center of mass at the mean radial distance of the center to the surface of this planet. :

[ February 13, 2004, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Pierre ]
post #95 of 98
No way!!! Are you sure about that?

Tom / PM
post #96 of 98
Thanks for the explanation of the difference between weight transfer and pressure transfer. Lito certainly does talk about weight transfer but I always interperated it as pressure transfer. I will check this when I next ski but I don't think I was confused into thinking of moving my weight literally over the new outside ski.

In my mental model the crossover takes care of weight shift while retraction/extension of legs takes care of pressure shift.

Putting this all into practice is another matter...

Having said all this, I am still not convinced that this deliberate pressure transfer is covered in the much referenced "perfect turn" post, yet it seems to be fundamental to modern carving.
post #97 of 98
In my mental model the crossover takes care of weight shift while retraction/extension of legs takes care of pressure shift.

Putting this all into practice is another matter...
James its indeed another matter and its much harder to do than most skiers realize. Why, because we walk by transfering both weight and pressure to the same foot. We have lots of practice.

More times than not I have found skiers who swear that they are using movements that move pressure and weight in opposite directions when in fact, they are not.

Bob's perfect turn contains all the elements necessary for this movement of pressure opposite of weight without exactly stating it.
post #98 of 98
I thought I'd go ahead and bump this classic another time as an alternative to the discussions on shortening, lifting or lightening the old stance leg (new inside leg). This seems to be a more assertive movement in transition, and actually in its extreme seems like it could be the initiation of a pedal hop turn. Anyway, its clearly another way of looking at a subject that has been discussed in depth recently.

Classic thread nomination?
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