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2011 skis - Page 2

post #31 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post




Good Q. The marketing thrust will be "rocker for everyone"  All K2's will have it although some of it is a little hard to see.

So........on trail skis will have "speed rocker" (practically invisible to me). All mountain skis will have.....guess what? "all mountain rocker"....a bit more but again, tip only and not much. As you go wider in the range you'll find all terrain rocker, powder rocker, park rocker, etc. etc.

SJ
 
Catch Free is only on the new Sweet Luv and First price point ski AMP Force.  Catch Free rocker as they explained it is combo of regular camber and small amount of tip&tail rocker.
post #32 of 96
 Kendo sounds like a really nice ski. I'm not on the all rocker all the time thing, but I could see a little tip rocker being nice on that ski.
post #33 of 96
SJ -

Can you tell us more about the new Lange boots and what you mean?

Thanks.
post #34 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruddog View Post



Catch Free is only on the new Sweet Luv and First price point ski AMP Force.  Catch Free rocker as they explained it is combo of regular camber and small amount of tip&tail rocker.
 

So, some of the skis ARE carry over, thats what it looks like in the picture. I am interested in trying the vertical sidewall 86 waisted ski, the current Crossfire skied quite well. I have said a few times that I wasn't old enough to ski the current Apache skis, I hope this new line changes that perception. The current line, to me, just skied too easy. I personally like a ski with a bit more feedback, the Apache line did everything with so little fan fare that they were boring, I guess they did their job too well. 
 
post #35 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post


I have seen some boots as well and so far the new Langes are stellar. These may be game changers for boot shops. Tecnica has some very good new 98mm boots as well.

SJ


 


Can you give more info on the new boots?
post #36 of 96
Any pics or beta of next years ross phantom line up?  
post #37 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post




Good Q. The marketing thrust will be "rocker for everyone"  All K2's will have it although some of it is a little hard to see.

So........on trail skis will have "speed rocker" (practically invisible to me). All mountain skis will have.....guess what? "all mountain rocker"....a bit more but again, tip only and not much. As you go wider in the range you'll find all terrain rocker, powder rocker, park rocker, etc. etc.

SJ
 


This is an interesting direction.  I'm anxious to do some demoing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post




So, some of the skis ARE carry over, thats what it looks like in the picture. I am interested in trying the vertical sidewall 86 waisted ski, the current Crossfire skied quite well. I have said a few times that I wasn't old enough to ski the current Apache skis, I hope this new line changes that perception. The current line, to me, just skied too easy. I personally like a ski with a bit more feedback, the Apache line did everything with so little fan fare that they were boring, I guess they did their job too well. 
 
I tend to agree with you on that, yet I have a friend who loves a ski that fits that profile.  I guess they know the market and fill it for that group
post #38 of 96

Some quick notes about a few 2011 Nordicas from one of our spies who skied a few new models this week:

 

Quote:
Speed Wave Skis are gone. They have been replaced by  Fire Arrow 74 and Fire Arrow 80.
They both rip.The 74 has a 74 mm waist and the 80 is an 80 mm waist. The 74 just engages tip to tail and lays down tracks effortlessly. The 80 has the same feel, just 14 meter vs 18 meter..I think 
Wood cores, 2 sheets of titanal and they both have the best graphics of any production ski ever.
Dobermann Spitfire: 72mm waist. Uses a polycarbonate/Graphite plate on the fore body of the ski to the toe of the binding. Allows for smooth longitudinal flex with incredible torsional stiffness. Because of the technology..it is incredibly damp. Smooth and snappy! Likes to be way out from underneath you and the tip just carves into the turn and you can drive it hard..they call it EDT energy dynamic technology. As always in my book the HellDiver Ti rules the roost.
82 under foot and just a smooth carving, high speed loving, ripper that is really stable.
Nitrous Ti is back with minor changes, but @ $699 with a binding...awesome.

Edited by ExoticSkis - 1/22/10 at 10:29am
post #39 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

Good Q. The marketing thrust will be "rocker for everyone"  All K2's will have it although some of it is a little hard to see.

So........on trail skis will have "speed rocker" (practically invisible to me). All mountain skis will have.....guess what? "all mountain rocker"....a bit more but again, tip only and not much. As you go wider in the range you'll find all terrain rocker, powder rocker, park rocker, etc. etc.

You weren't kidding when you said marketing "thrust".  It really sounds like they have become obsessed with the notion of rocker.  Might be abuse of the concept...
post #40 of 96
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post




You weren't kidding when you said marketing "thrust".  It really sounds like they have become obsessed with the notion of rocker.  Might be abuse of the concept...
 

I think that you will see a little less of it next year. It's the hot thing right now. And different rockers are good for different situations. Manufacturers will see this year where they need it and where they don't. It's better to try new things than stagnate. People complain about snowboarders but it's things like twintips, fat ski's and rocker that are getting people back on 2 sticks. It worked on me.
post #41 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post




I think that you will see a little less of it next year. It's the hot thing right now. And different rockers are good for different situations. Manufacturers will see this year where they need it and where they don't. It's better to try new things than stagnate. People complain about snowboarders but it's things like twintips, fat ski's and rocker that are getting people back on 2 sticks. It worked on me.

agreed - bonus.....when those snowboarders trade their boards for 2 sticks they tend to get off the slopes and stay in the parks where their limited ski skills aren't exposed. Keep the trend going !!!!!!!!!!!!
post #42 of 96
Wasn't that long ago the same thing was being said about shaped skis.
post #43 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post

Just WHO do they perceive their market as?

I'm gonna save some money next season....that's for sure!
 


We obviously aren't part of the target demographic group any more. I guess my quiver is complete, whether I like it or not. That or my next pair of sticks will be from Craigslist.
post #44 of 96
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrison Claystone View Post

Quote:



We obviously aren't part of the target demographic group any more. I guess my quiver is complete, whether I like it or not. That or my next pair of sticks will be from Craigslist.
 

Lets be realistic, the majority of people skiing are older, getting past their prime, etc. The ski industry needs to draw in younger people to be profitable in the FUTURE. There are still plenty of boring ski's for you to buy.
post #45 of 96
Pretty loud graphics, looks like I'll be hanging on to this years ski!
post #46 of 96
I like how some of the skis look. Besides I could really give a rats ass what color my skis or boots are, what matters is how they perform.
post #47 of 96
Well everyone's taste in ski graphics may be different. I'm not talking about ski performance here (or lack there of). While I would not buy a ski based solely on it's top sheet, I would definitely NOT buy them because of it, performance aside.

Of my skis from the last two seasons alone I cannot say I am really happy with the graphics of any of them.
post #48 of 96
If graphics meant nothing to skiers, manufactuers wouldn't spend the time, effort, and money to put them on topsheets -- skis would all be white or black.

Anyways, what the heck did Nordica do to their race skis and carving line? Are they serious? I can see the graphics on the newschool freeride line but putting 'acid-trip' graphics on the Dobermann WC models? Is Nordica trying to attract newschoolers to racing? I can imagine a Nordica racer winning a medal at the Olympics and, with skis sporting next years topsheets, as is typical, they will hold them up on the podium for the viewing audience to see. Every non-skier around the world who views the event will be thinking, 'did he get sick and puke on his skis?' 
post #49 of 96
Volkl already has info on their website .... http://www.voelkl.com/index.cfm/en/14/0/1/1751/
post #50 of 96
or he could hold up his GS skis with top sheet soft porn imagery  (actually on the Nordica Ignition park ski.) 

haha, they had trouble with Julia's tiara. not much sense of humor about the image of a World Cup or Olympic champion, or their skis I'd suspect.
post #51 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoMan View Post





Can you give more info on the new boots?

I saw the Tecnicas a while back so I'm fuzzy on the positioning. There are new shells in all the race boots (95mm) and race derivatives (98mm) along with a sort of EDT concept but better executed. No 27's available so I can't review the fit as yet.  Among the things I like the best are some new 98mm women's offerings that are sorely needed and will expand our selection in that area.

The Langes are so new, I'm not sure where to start except to say this. The new race shells in 97mm and 100mm look like huge winners. I haven't been able to get my Brannock 11.5 into a 26 so I can't say for sure. I will have a 27 waiting for me when I get back to work on Sunday so then I'll have a better idea if the execution is equal to the concept. In many ways, I'm most excited about the 100mm boot because while there are some boots that sell well in that range (Speemachines and Impacts for example), this boot should offer a more solid fit and hence real performance for that foot type.

Everyone that has seen them so far has said exactly the same thing when they got their first look.................WOW!!

Yes they are Blue.

SJ
post #52 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post




You weren't kidding when you said marketing "thrust".  It really sounds like they have become obsessed with the notion of rocker.  Might be abuse of the concept...

Abuse?....nawwww.....I don't think so. Overuse? yeah, that might be pretty close. Actually, I think that it's a pretty good move for K2. Think about where you see K2 skis and who for the most part is really selling them these days. This makes an easy story for a salesguy who doesn't ski or if he does is probably not able to articulate the differences between two roughly similar skis. Now all he has to remember is "it's got rocker dewd" It may just work out very well for some retailers.

SJ
post #53 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post




Abuse?....nawwww.....I don't think so. Overuse? yeah, that might be pretty close. Actually, I think that it's a pretty good move for K2. Think about where you see K2 skis and who for the most part is really selling them these days. This makes an easy story for a salesguy who doesn't ski or if he does is probably not able to articulate the differences between two roughly similar skis. Now all he has to remember is "it's got rocker dewd" It may just work out very well for some retailers.

SJ
 
And for K2. It will be very interesting to ski how they actually ski though. Maybe they will the greatest skis ever, maybe they will be the same old boring K2's.  We will soon know!   It is sad that some ski companies are pulling a Starbucks and have become marketing companies, selling hype and bling over functionality.  Give me product that works well, that is all I ask!  Maybe I am not really a sales guy at heart....
post #54 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post

Salomon El Dictator:

Designed by Cody Townsend and explained in his words from TGR




El Dictator
Size: 194
(wussies need not read further because this is the only size offered)
Dimensions: 134 x 114 x 124
Characteristics: 300mm Tip Rocker, Flat Square Tail, Full Woodcore

The story:

So the inspiration for the ski came from the head freeride ski designer Lionel Favret. He said to Kaj Zackrisson and I one day, "We will build a ski for you. We wouldn't want to send you two into a Formula 1 race with a Citroen, so the ski is as you wish. Build your Formula 1 ski".
The excitement to build a ski one-hundred percent from scratch, as I wanted to build the ski was nearly over-whelming. But once I settled down the conception process was an easy one. It's something I've been dreaming of for years upon years.

I wanted something that withstand the rigor of hard-charging, variable conditions while still combining some of the pleasurable elements of recent ski design with regards to effortless pow skiing. And I wanted it to stomp cliffs, biiiggg cliffs.

So the design you see above is what we came up with. Now let me tell you why we picked the design we did.

Size: 194 cm. We wanted something that had the long turning, hard charging capabilities of the 202 XW Lab but with a bit shorter length for more versatility and tighter turning proficiency. Hence a pretty damn big ski but not overwhelming length by any means.

 


Not a overwhelming length?????  What if you are 159 cm tall??  How tall is cody?  If the ski was 35 cm taller than him would he say it is not overwhelmingly big?!??!?!!?
 
post #55 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoMan View Post




It is strange that they put the finger painting scheme on the Speedmachine line. I have no idea why they would do that as the young and hip crowd isn't interested in the piste carvers. With those graphics, they are likely going to alienate some in the target audience for this type of ski.


Do alot of people actually care what the ski looks like?  When I was looking at skis, I was actually looking at woman's skis do to my being short and woman skis tending to be low priced on clearance.  If I found a clearance ski that was a hot price, my size, and right dimensions I could care less if it was pink!
post #56 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveys View Post





Do alot of people actually care what the ski looks like? 

 

Although many skiers would be reluctant to admit it here, I would say that, in general, skiers care a bit about what the skis look like. Is it the main purchasing criteria? For most, no. Would perception of graphics be enough for some skiers to overlook one manufacturer in favor of another when looking at a ski in the same performance class? I also would say, yes. When it's all said and done, I think image and perception means more to people than they would care to admit here or are willing to admit. It's human nature to be influenced by aesthetics and peer pressure. That's why marketing and advertising is so successful. Skiers are not immune--even good skiers. IMO, of course.
 
As far as my own preferences and perceptions, I think some of the graphcis would steer me away from a particular manufacturer in favor of another. If I was still a young buck, my perceptions likely would be differemt. I can find a suitable ski that meets my needs from any manufacturer, Just about everyone makes a good ski -- performance-wise.
post #57 of 96
 To answer the graphix quesetion: 
I have never bought a ski because of the graphix but graphix have turned me off from buying a ski.

As for the K2 thrust, I'm excited to see how they ski.
post #58 of 96
Being an east coast dealer and knowing where my customers ski, My concern with all these rockered tips (or whatever "catch phrase" a companies gives them) is while they might theoretically turn better or give more float, in all reality, the target market for most of these skiers still ride in the backseat. These skiers are gonna be coming back and complaining that they are getting no edge control. 
post #59 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

Being an east coast dealer and knowing where my customers ski, My concern with all these rockered tips (or whatever "catch phrase" a companies gives them) is while they might theoretically turn better or give more float, in all reality, the target market for most of these skiers still ride in the backseat. These skiers are gonna be coming back and complaining that they are getting no edge control. 

As a westy, I can agree with you. Despite all the frabba jabba about powder skis etc, the majority of western skiers don't ski off trail. Those who do, won't be buying 74mm or 86mm skis and expecting them to be magically better in powder due to a few mm of tip rise. I have skied one of the K2s but in honesty, it wasn't prepped and it was not skiing well so I can't say one way or the other. OTH, I have several laps on the new double rise Rossi SC 86 and it skis well. However, the rise is minimal and therefore the effect felt minimal. I'd have to go back to back with the older one to see if there is any difference. That's not practical b/c the older flat version is gone. When I get to Winter Park, my agenda will be to run the new Rossi back to back with a Sultan 85 and see if the Rocker makes the Rossi easier to turn. My guess is not but I'll know pretty soon. FWIW....the new K2's are very well executed. They are very nicely built and look very good. However the build looks a lot like the old ones so I would expect them to be comfortable. Expecting something dramatically different may not be realistic.



SJ
post #60 of 96
SJ, tell us about the new Langes. I was bummed that they eliminated the 92mm from anything but the real plug. I love my 2009 Supercomps in the WC fit -- first boots I've ever had that really worked well for my skinny, low-instep feet (plus the R12 is a great design and super precise). I only wish I didn;t have to go to quite such a stiff boot to get that fit -- it's great for carving hardpack but it's a lot of boot for soft snow, bumps etc.  I'm sure they couldn't sell many of them, but I wish more boot companies would make at least one boot that's not a 150/160 flex but with a pluglike shape.
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