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Ethical dilemma - would you have kept your mouth shut? - Page 2

post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post

 My reference to fingers crammed into the back of boot shells wasn't to be taken literally. I haven't purchased alpine ski boots since 1983. They didn't cram anything into the back of your boots in those days.

I understand the unit of measure is fingers, but I could be wrong on that also.

I understand what you are saying "I understand the unit of measure is fingers, but I could be wrong on that also."

Why dont we just use real numbers? ( 5mm to 20mm fit )
post #32 of 45
 Good idea, a foreign unit of measure that means nothing to most of us. :D
post #33 of 45
All the numbers on my boots are metric.
post #34 of 45
I was at a ski shop very close to Hunter Mtn a few years ago when a similar situation came up.
The salesman was promoting a pair of boots by saying that they could heat the liner to get a custom fit, not telling the customer that the oven they use for that wasn't working. Since the person didn't buy, I don't know what I would have done. Still not sure.
post #35 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post

 Good idea, a foreign unit of measure that means nothing to most of us. :D


Darn right!

Time we sarted calling those 180 cm skis what they really are- 70.87 inches!
post #36 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddrhey View Post

So many shops are like this nowadays. "SERVICE" is becoming a thing of the past...


having a reasonably broad perspective on this, 'so many shops are like this nowadays' was applicable 30 - 40 years ago. "Service' during the late 60's and breakout yrs of the 70's was also a 'thing of the past'.
It's really the never-ending state of 'retail'.
caveat emptor
If you get a proprietor or mgr at a small shop, good chance you'll get good service (but not necessarily good advise...) if you get someone at a shop with a good 'rep', then even though you don't ask a lot of pointed questions, you'll likely get good service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post

 What exactly is wrong with "Boot should be comfortable, Ok for toes to touch, will pack out." Sounds like a good, brief answer to the question.

You may wish to be educated by salespersons but not everybody does. A good salesman may give a customer such as this some respectful distance but knows when he is dealing with someone like you who wants to know how many fingers he can force into the back of your boot shells.
 

A good salesperson will try their best to 'judge' as much about the customer as they can, given the info offered. And if they don;t feel enough info is given, then pointed Questions should follow. Along with a proper measurement.
Given the price of equipment and expected reasonable longterm use, this is more than buying some 'sneaks'...
But there's always a difference in sales people; from those who do the best job they can becuase they have pride in their effort. Then there are those who find 'pay' (and retail pay usually sucks) and any other excuse to not ever do the job.
Comfort is a given, what constitutes 'comfort' is not so easy. Toes touching is not Newton's 4th law. And giving some parameters around which to make a reasonable decision always makes for return customers, and for shop owners that might sometimes outweigh the absolute of an immediate sale.
In deference to the 'Boot Guys' here on Epic - Many shops run by the 1st rule of Fitting:
"The boot in question is either wide, narrow, low or high volume, stiff or soft depending on what is in stock for the size you might need to put the customer into".
The thinning of the retail herd, in the past 2 decades has prolly been a good thing.
And being bamboozled by a 20 yr old nosepicker should be high on a customer's alert list. (having been a 20 yr old nosepicker myself...)
and, of course, the crappage you won;t tolerate from a male customer will often be tolerated for hours, coming from a female shopper...
overcoming the 'kook' factor, as a good samaritan "bud-in-ski" is usually the most difficult part, especially if the nosepicker is worth anything.
Let the games begin, ensue...
post #37 of 45
As others have suggested, I would have spoken with the guy out of earshot of the employee and let him know that he needs to find a shop that has competent employees. I would have given him a few tips and told him good luck.
post #38 of 45
There is an excellent educational tool (I mastered it when I was 17, in the 8th grade, I'm really smart... or 'special' as my teachers used to say)...

There is a board with different shaped holes in it and a bunch of blocks that fit into the holes... here's the hard part: you have to fit the blocks into the holes. It's way harder than it sounds, especially if you try to just look at the hole then look at the block and pick the one that fits without trying it first. Some of the blocks are triangular, some are square (the square and the diamond are actually the same if you turn the block)... anyway, it's pretty hard to do it right and you're not allowed to use a hammer to make the blocks fit.

I wonder if the guy at the store was also good at this... was he using a hammer? Maybe he was smart, like me... or maybe even like Mrs.Roberts my 'special teacher' she could do the whole puzzle really fast and she always got it right and never needed a hammer to help.
post #39 of 45
I've only ever found the need to correct a sales person if whatever they're trying to sell to said customer is incredibly wrong, or of course it could be something that could lead to a fatal/extremely painful accident. It can be disrespectful to the employee to call him out on it in such a manner, who knows maybe he was fairly new, and frankly you end up coming off as a nosy know-it-all that not many people enjoy.

Maybe after the sales person had made their attempts with the customer, go to the customer and tell'm about some place that has better service or prices, etc, then if you really feel the need, go up to the employee and correct him/her and tell him/her that they need to make sure to find out more about what they're selling if they're going to want to be an effective sales person.
post #40 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crvehrdorgohome View Post

...

Pat, I'd like to buy a vowel. Could I get an 'A', please?
post #41 of 45
"Buyer Beware", isn't that the saying?
I don't see any "ethical" dilemma, it isn't a moral
situation.
post #42 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by John J View Post

"Buyer Beware", isn't that the saying?
I don't see any "ethical" dilemma, it isn't a moral
situation.

+1. You are not the shop owner or salesperson so there is nothing ethical even remotely involved. In addition there are worse things in the world than a beginner getting a comfortable slightly to loose boot. As he improves he'll understand the value of a professional fit.


Edited by Eric S - 1/19/10 at 11:45am
post #43 of 45
PPSSST Buddy the toes both point the same way!!
OK I see your point!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crvehrdorgohome View Post

I've only ever found the need to correct a sales person if whatever they're trying to sell to said customer is incredibly wrong, or of course it could be something that could lead to a fatal/extremely painful accident. It can be disrespectful to the employee to call him out on it in such a manner, who knows maybe he was fairly new, and frankly you end up coming off as a nosy know-it-all that not many people enjoy.

Maybe after the sales person had made their attempts with the customer, go to the customer and tell'm about some place that has better service or prices, etc, then if you really feel the need, go up to the employee and correct him/her and tell him/her that they need to make sure to find out more about what they're selling if they're going to want to be an effective sales person.
 
post #44 of 45
You cut off my sentence.  And I have gone to the local shop and paid $50 for a wax and tune (for brand new skis, not much of a tune needed) just to support the local shop.  And the salesman was a 16 year old who didn't even really know much about skiing.  If I would of bought a new pair of skis it probably would of been $900.  The people that buy from the local store are going to pay that.  There is good reason too.  Lots of people are busy with work, a family, and spending time with their kids ranks way higher than researching ski equipment on the internet.  They rely on the ski shop for that.  And in some cases they are hugely let down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post




you payed $800 for a ski and $700 for boots this season? Really?
 
post #45 of 45
So a guy walks in to a retail store and asks for a pair of ski boots and the help working doesn't give him the customer service YOU expect. What's the big deal?
There's a shop near me that does about $40K of retail weekly in ski season, in Houston, TX. They sell all sorts of $900 skis and $800 boots to Houstonians who may ski 5 days a season. This shop has molded footbeds for me, they've heatmolded liners of boots I've purchased at other places, they've mounted bindings for us and waxed our skis. If they want to make a profit on people perfectly willing to NOT educate themselves before they buy, more power to them.
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