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ZipFit toe room question

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

I have a question for you ZipFit gurus.

I'm having a problem meeting up with my fitter, so I'm trying to deal with this on my own, but now I'm stuck.

It appears that the ZipFit liner I got is just slightly short-lasted when compared to the stock liner from my Lange WC 100. This is giving me a nasty case of cramped big toe on the left foot. Overall, the rest of the fit is great, but I'm at a loss on how to get that extra 1/8-1/4" space for my big toe. The ZipFit liner is the older Classic model with the cordura (or whatever) toe box, not the neoprene. Anyone have any tips or tricks for this???

I have the one on the left in a 23.5 in a Lange size 5 shell (Thanks bunches, Lou!!!):

post #2 of 17
You can try heating the area with a heat (BE CAREFUL!) and then reaching in there with the back of a sppon/dowl etc and try pushing it out a bit.
post #3 of 17
Lnages are famous for being short lasted themselves so I'm surprised your zip is shorter.  But that said how many days have you skied them now?

post #4 of 17
Thread Starter 
I got in 5 partial days last year, then 9 or so partial days so far this year (a total of 33 hours +/-)
post #5 of 17
To get an idea of where the problem lies....try this. Look at your boots from the side and visualize the shape. Pay particular attention to the depth and curvature of the heel cup of your boot. Now place that liner next to the boot and look at the same area from the side....whattaya see?

The Lange race shells (and most others for that matter) have a very deep heel pocket. The ZF liners are basically almost straight from the rear of the cuff down to the base of the heel. They don't fit back into that heel pocket in the smaller shell sizes.

Your toe room is hiding out behind your heels.

post #6 of 17
Jim is probably correct.  Now I wonder if his experience and mine are similar?  I have found that nearly everyone that has purchased zips has been pleased but that sometimes it takes some time.
post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 

So, any suggestions on expanding that heel pocket, then?

I'm very happy with them except for the fact that I can't get that left big toe straightened out and flat on the footbed. It's not only painful, it also makes that left ski feel twitchy. Grrrrr

I thought I'd be able to see my boot guy on 2/5 since I took the day of work. Nope, he's out of town that weekend. Argh!
post #8 of 17
IMO the Zip is superb quality but rather generic in last shape hence that straight cuff to heel line. A flexible liner like a lace-up racer for instance will fill that void but the Zip is not real flexible back in that area. Heat and pressure are the natural answers but it's not easy to get that firm outer skin material to change shape. We tend to give the liner a solid dose on the heat stacks followed by a burst in the convection over then slap it into the shell followed by the foot and footbed of course. This sometimes speeds the process of molding the flo-material. A mechanical stretch in that area might work but I have never tried it. Also, as goofy as it sounds, a slight rearward flare of the top 1/2" or so of the upper cuff spoiler could possibly help. IAC, I suspect time is the real answer.

post #9 of 17
we have seen this problem in the past and got round it by grinding the area above the heel pocket to allow the liner to slide backwards in the boot a little, basically reducing the depth of the heel pocket by blending it into the spine of the boot, the grind is normally in the area below the flex bolts to take some of the nip out, hope that makes sence, my brain is still at 2500m
post #10 of 17
Thread Starter 
CEM: Yup, that makes total sense!

Thanks to all of you for the suggestions! I'll start with the heat and remold first (although I might have to borrow the toe caps from TC to get enough pressure to really push on the heel area. Ouch!). Question, though.....will the steam heat method be enough to soften the outer skin of the liner?

After that, if I can't get in to see Jim R, we're set up to do the grinding if need be.
post #11 of 17
I've never used steam on a liner and don't know that I would start, but others here may have different comments.  If I were going to heat the liners I'd use a convention oven carefully.

post #12 of 17
Thread Starter 
An update:

After thinking about Jim's comment on the space hiding out behind my heels, I took the liners out and had a look. As I was looking and considering options, it occurred to me that the heel lifts taped to the footboards severely cramped that little bit of room in the heel pocket, so out they came! A quick heat in the Hot Gear bag and nuker for a remold of both liners and shells........it seems to have completely solved the toe room problem for now, but gave me a whole 'nother set of issues. Note I said issues, not problems. I think maybe the heel lifts were, in part, causing my "park and ride" problem in long turns! While I did still occasionally end up in the back seat this weekend, I never felt "stuck" there as I have been for the last couple of years.

The ZipFits have enough material around the ankle bone to cure the problem the heel lifts were originally installed for (really short sole to ankle bone distance, keeping the ankle bones below the ankle pocket), so I'm going to keep working on my stance without the lifts. That said, I now understand why some women move their bindings forward a bit :-(

Thanks for the suggestions, guys!
post #13 of 17
IMO heel lifts are an over-used device for many women.  We used to see skis with delta increase, bindings with significant delta, boots with increased ramp angle and then lets add a heel lift, forget what the needs of the individual are.  ;)
post #14 of 17
What is relation between heel lifts and bindings forward?  Don't see any mention in your message. 
post #15 of 17
I never said anything about forward mounting of bindings, but that is/was done often as well, but imo I think it was less damaging to most people than just adding a big 'ol heel lift all willy nilly. What I was getting at was how we have seen heel lifts being used with many women who do not need them. Look at what used to pass as cutting edge womens gear. The stuff put a lot of women off balance IMO. I first noticed this when a long time, women customer of mine, came in saying that her skiing suffered after heel lifts were added to her boots (not by me). She told me what was going on and I said take the heel lifts out (duh), problem solved. Like I said, what works for some does not work for others. Looking at the individual is what is key IMO.
post #16 of 17
Thread Starter 

Non of my stuff is forward mounted, but I spent the whole weekend fighting with the feeling that I couldn't feel the tips of my skis with the heel lifts out; thus the comment about forward mounting.

I spent the last 4 days so out-of-whack that I put the lifts back in and returned to the old liners for now. With the lifts out, I got heel lift and slide, quad burn and calf cramps, and I spent the whole time feeling like I was on my heels. My next step (tonight), is to remold with the lifts IN the liner, under the footbed. After that, I'm just stuck, I think.

post #17 of 17
Thread Starter 

Problem solved with the lifts inside the liner!! I love, love, LOVE this boot/liner combination!!! Best fit I've ever had!

Thank you to Lou for the liners, and Jim for the heads-up on the real problem!! You guys ROCK!
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