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Need suggestions on grippy east coast ski

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
Hello,

Looking for suggestions on a stiff 14m radius range ski.  I ski about 10 days in the east and 5-10 days out west a year.

I'm now on my 4th season on my 05/06 Volkl Allstar (168cm) and they have definitely improved my skiing (they've truly been a fantastic ski).  They are great on hardpack and I can still manage fine in deep powder despite the 70mm waist (although a wider waist would be a plus for those days).

I'm looking for a new ski that will help bring my skill level to the next level.  My leg strength has substantially improved over the past two years thanks to weight lifting and I feel I can go to something stiffer. 

Here is a demo review that I did on 08 Atomic Race SL10s for reference http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/63192/08-atomic-race-sl10

I really liked that ski, except for its inability to carve wider turns.  I felt my Allstars were more versatile in that respect, but was in LOVE with the power and grip of the Atomics (something I'm looking for now).  My Allstars are a 14.4m radius.  The 163 Atomics were 12m I believe.  Would going to longer slalom skis (and subsequent larger radius) provide the ability to carve wider turns?

I believe the Volkl Tigersharks are the Allstar replacement, no?  Thoughts on that?

Basically, I want to develop a list of skis to demo....try them all out and choose the winner.

Thanks for the help!  Epicski did not let me down when many suggested I demo the Allstars (amongst others)!

Kevin
post #2 of 27
In NYC, call Scandinavian and see if they still demo Stockli.  Generally the SC is a good compromise race type ski in about a 14m (170's) .... I has been a long time and the world changes .... but I came over from Volkl and found a Stockli better on the icy stuff.
post #3 of 27
I think you have a good carving ski in that radius,.  I ski Fischer RX-8's and I have noticed that my legs get more tired skiing them, also, but I have attributed that to more turns per run.  when I need extra endurance, to teach all day, or for an all day clinic, I have found that a slightly longer radius ski works better.  In my case those are AMC-76's.  I think your money would be better spent getting a ski that does something else well, either a mid-range ski (waist 76-82 mm) or a fat ski for more powder.  I think that in the East you will get more use out of a mid=range ski than a fat ski.  You listed your weight at 165 in the review you linked, so I would guess that almost any brand ski would work well for you.
post #4 of 27
 AC50, Rossiginol CX 80

They are both good skis with a better GS feel and better for laying down big turns.

Although, when I go home to new york to visit family (greek peak), I find that there really isnt enough mountain to get these skis up to speed and lay down big turns, they both need speed and room to move.

I liked the RX-8's OK, but to me, the AC50 was way more ski.
post #5 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin M View Post

Hello,

Looking for suggestions on a stiff 14m radius range ski.  I ski about 10 days in the east and 5-10 days out west a year.

I'm now on my 4th season on my 05/06 Volkl Allstar (168cm) and they have definitely improved my skiing (they've truly been a fantastic ski).  They are great on hardpack and I can still manage fine in deep powder despite the 70mm waist (although a wider waist would be a plus for those days).

I'm looking for a new ski that will help bring my skill level to the next level.  My leg strength has substantially improved over the past two years thanks to weight lifting and I feel I can go to something stiffer. 

Need a little more info. Your height, weight, and a bit more info about your ability and turning style might help. Trying to figure out what it is that the Allstars are not giving you. (For example, are you actually racing on it? Maybe you are too big for the 168? Are there tuning issues? Maybe you have 200 days on them and they are tired and you just need a fresh copy of a similar ski?) It's a good ski for strong skiers, and not significantly dated yet. If you want something in the same vein, but with more power, then your instinct to go with more of a race-specific ski makes sense. Meanwhile, failing more input, I agree with one of the other posters that if you want to broaden your horizons you should keep the Allstars and go for a ski that will make the bumps and trees more fun on days when it snows, and in the spring corn. Maybe something in the 85 - 95mm range.
post #6 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post




Need a little more info. Your height, weight, and a bit more info about your ability and turning style might help. Trying to figure out what it is that the Allstars are not giving you. (For example, are you actually racing on it? Maybe you are too big for the 168? Are there tuning issues? Maybe you have 200 days on them and they are tired and you just need a fresh copy of a similar ski?) It's a good ski for strong skiers, and not significantly dated yet. If you want something in the same vein, but with more power, then your instinct to go with more of a race-specific ski makes sense. Meanwhile, failing more input, I agree with one of the other posters that if you want to broaden your horizons you should keep the Allstars and go for a ski that will make the bumps and trees more fun on days when it snows, and in the spring corn. Maybe something in the 85 - 95mm range.

 


160lb, 28 yr old, skiing 25 years, turning style is all over the place....quick turns, moguls, shorter hard turns through long sweeping fast turns.

I do think that my allstars are great in everything.  Ive managed in crud, moguls and 22 inches in 1day at Snowbird.  Therefore I think despite the 70mm waist, like the ski in all conditions.  Just looking for a little more of an agressive ski, as I've tried that and liked part of it (Atomic SL10). 
post #7 of 27
The Tigersharks (10 or 11 I assume) you mention would seem to be good choices.  I would also consider the Fischer Progressor 8+.  A step up from the RX8 (which is similar to your Allstars) with good hard snow grip but more versatile.
post #8 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin M View Post


160lb, 28 yr old, skiing 25 years, turning style is all over the place....quick turns, moguls, shorter hard turns through long sweeping fast turns.

I do think that my allstars are great in everything.  Ive managed in crud, moguls and 22 inches in 1day at Snowbird.  Therefore I think despite the 70mm waist, like the ski in all conditions.  Just looking for a little more of an agressive ski, as I've tried that and liked part of it (Atomic SL10). 

So I think you've already answered your own question. You're looking for a more powerful hard snow ski than the Allstars. You're probably looking at a race ski or at least a race-type ski, but the slalom-cut skis you've tried seem too turny. If the Allstars aren't enough for you, I don't see that the Tigersharks or Progressor 8s are going to give you what you're looking for, as they are just newer incarnations of skis to fill essentially the same niche. Just as good as the Allstars, but probably not "more agressive."

The Fischer WC RC is a cheater GS ski with about a 15m radius that is well liked here and elsewhere. I had a pair. Excellent of their type, any of which needs an energetic and skilled pilot. There are others in this same category, such as the Dynastar Speed Course, Head Supershape Speed, Elan GS(X) Waveflex RS, plus many more that I'm sure others will name. As always, demos pay dividends, just in case what you liked about those Atomics was precisely their slalom-y-ness.

I certainly wouldn't particularly like to be on a ski like this in the bumps or at Snowbird, but then I wouldn't like the Allstars there either.
post #9 of 27
 I would have loved to see 22 inches allstars at the bird. I have done it on Progressors as well but the speed and easy of skiing compared to well anything else is huge.

I guess ignorance is bliss.
post #10 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

 I would have loved to see 22 inches allstars at the bird. I have done it on Progressors as well but the speed and easy of skiing compared to well anything else is huge.

Could you translate into English?
post #11 of 27
If you want to carve longer turns, you need a longer radius ski than a SL ski.  They won't turn on a dime as easily as a SL ski.  You have to compromise somewhere.  Maybe a left-over Atomic SX11 or 12 (if you can still find one) would be a good compromise.

If you want more power and grip, then go to a more race oriented ski.
Fischer WC, Head SuperShape Speed. 

Nothing that grips hard on and lets you rip on ice will be good in deep snow when compared to a ski made for that purpose. 
post #12 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofun3 View Post




Could you translate into English?
late night editing video...


I would have loved to see you on your allstars at the the bird. I have skied that much snow on  my Progressors as well but the speed and easy of skiing compared to well anything else I have owned PE, thugs, Seths is huge.

Ignorance is Bliss I guess.
post #13 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofun3 View Post

Could you translate into English?

  As Bushwacker syntax goes, that was actually very clear and well punctuated.
post #14 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post




So I think you've already answered your own question. You're looking for a more powerful hard snow ski than the Allstars. You're probably looking at a race ski or at least a race-type ski, but the slalom-cut skis you've tried seem too turny. If the Allstars aren't enough for you, I don't see that the Tigersharks or Progressor 8s are going to give you what you're looking for, as they are just newer incarnations of skis to fill essentially the same niche. Just as good as the Allstars, but probably not "more agressive."

The Fischer WC RC is a cheater GS ski with about a 15m radius that is well liked here and elsewhere. I had a pair. Excellent of their type, any of which needs an energetic and skilled pilot. There are others in this same category, such as the Dynastar Speed Course, Head Supershape Speed, Elan GS(X) Waveflex RS, plus many more that I'm sure others will name. As always, demos pay dividends, just in case what you liked about those Atomics was precisely their slalom-y-ness.

I certainly wouldn't particularly like to be on a ski like this in the bumps or at Snowbird, but then I wouldn't like the Allstars there either.

 

I've heard good things about the Fischer WC RC and will give that a shot, and try for the other ones as well.  Is the design similar over the past 2 or 3 model years?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

 I would have loved to see 22 inches allstars at the bird. I have done it on Progressors as well but the speed and easy of skiing compared to well anything else is huge.

I guess ignorance is bliss.
 

I had a shit eating grin on my face the whole time. 
post #15 of 27
volkl AC50's arent a bad choice, or volkl unlimited grizzly's however it will probably be not as easy to carve tight turns with your allstars.

It really depends on what you prefer more, a ski that is more suited when you go West, or when you ski in the eastern north america region.

Also you should decide whether you want a ski designed more for the frontside and carving turns, or deeper powder.

As you said, the tight carving skis can manage in powder, but it's a very different experience when your floating on powder on bigger skis

So tigershark if you really need the slalom carving skis, volkl unlimited ac50's or grizzly's if you want more fun off piste while still able to carve shorter turns, and maybe the mantra if you want to give up tight carves altogether and just manage the frontside while really enjoying the off piste.

The mantras are a good ski for whatever powder you might find in the eastern North american region
post #16 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin M View Post




I've heard good things about the Fischer WC RC and will give that a shot, and try for the other ones as well.  Is the design similar over the past 2 or 3 model years?



I had a shit eating grin on my face the whole time

 

Hence the "ignorance is bliss" statement.
post #17 of 27
Dynastar Contact 4x4 might be a choice though 16m radius. I was told Volkl AC50 were more off-piste/large turn  oriented than the 4x4, in Volkl I would think Tigershark or AC30 would be closer to what you are seeking.
post #18 of 27
Check out the Head Supershape Speeds or Magnums.  I had a friend who out muscled his 5stars and eventually usurped my SS Speeds.  He's skied them in foot+ deep.  If you want something a little more versatile for East/West, the Magnum is wider underfoot (72mm, IIRC).  I like my Blizzard 8.7s though and ski them plenty East.
post #19 of 27
Thread Starter 

bump.....heading out to Breck in a couple of days so I need to get a list of skis to try!

Thanks for all of the help so far.

(anyone know of a good place to demo skis from in Breck or any of the surrounding mountains?)

post #20 of 27
 I had a similar problem to you - my atomic drive carbons were no longer enough ski for me, and I wanted a race type ski. I demoed and bought some stockli laser sc's - an amazing a carving ski, between SL and GS radius. Expensive, but worth it - grip on ice like I have never experienced, and short turns are so easy and natural. When carving a longer turn I never feel I am going too fast as they just have such good edge hold. Can't reccomend them enough.
post #21 of 27
I'd second the tigersharks.  I have CX80 's and they're great, but i need a stable stiff ski.  If you are concerned with short-radius, I'd go with the Tigers or maybe a Blizzard Supersonic or something like that.  I would stay away fom the race skis if I were you if you aren't racing on them.  There are plenty of stiff high performance skis that are more suited for the entire mountain.  
post #22 of 27
 I think the advice given about keeping the allstars is solid.  Not to sound like an ass, but im a pretty good skier and I have challenged the allstars to most any EC condition, steepness/angle and speed. (except real pow) and they are top notch.  Frankly Unless you are racing, i seriously doubt you can "out ski" that ski.  IMHO there really is no new technology that warrants replacing them. In other words, unless you are looking for a super tree or pow ski,  I dont think you can do that much better then the allstars for the EC.  

They have no speed limit and with a good tune can handle even the most gnarliest conditions.   The only downside is that its a tad heavy and may not be as "snappy" as some other skis out there. But snappy is not always "better."  If your technique is good, the allstars will reward you

Keep the volkls and get a newer mid fat as suggested.  
post #23 of 27
Thread Starter 

bfry....Those Stockli's sound great!  Seem hard to find when searching google though, and expensive! (I love the look of the top sheet though, but thats just a bonus).

eastskier44....I will absolutely demo the tigershark 10 and 11.  If they are similar to my allstars then I'll stay on my allstars (they are the allstar replacement correct?).

kbuzz...you very well may be right, and I think there is a good chance that after I demo I may stick with what I have.  I'm not looking to get new skis just to get new skis, just want more performance, so if the allstars are still legit, I'll stay on them for a couple more years.

Demo list will be as follows:

*Atomic SL10 (going for 168 for a longer radius than the 163 I demo'd)
*Fischer WC RC
*Volkl Tigershark 10 &/or 11
*Stockli Laser SC (if I can even find them)
*Head SuperShape

 

Doubt I'll find all of those, but will try for most.


 

post #24 of 27
Kevin keep us in the loop im curious about the stockli's in general
post #25 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbuzz View Post

Kevin keep us in the loop im curious about the stockli's in general
 

Will do.  I will post a separate review on every ski I demo.
post #26 of 27
Kevin , maybe look into Elan Magfire 74, I picked up a new pair this year and it is real grippy, I'm 6' 205lbs and skiing it in a 176 and it has done everything I wanted on hardpack /groomed short, long turns, arc to arc, or smeared. Little stiff in bumps, have not skied it in any powder but I don't have it for that.Believe it has a 16.5m radius turn shape and it is 74 under foot. Enters and exits from turns with good power and grip. Very lively ski.Might be worth demoing if get a chance.
post #27 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin M View Post

Demo list will be as follows:

*Atomic SL10 (going for 168 for a longer radius than the 163 I demo'd)
*Fischer WC RC
*Volkl Tigershark 10 &/or 11
*Stockli Laser SC (if I can even find them)
*Head SuperShape

 


 


Note that the Head mentioned at least twice in this thread is the SuperShape Speed, not the regular SuperShape, which is probably too slalomy to fit in this crowd. I predict you will end up on the Fischer.
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