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Crossover vs Cross through - drills for cross through

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Trying (underline trying) to add cross through. Skiing very briefly with a level 4 (CSIA) last weekend and while I thought I was going through - in reality I was going over. Unfortunately no drill suggestions were offered. While I can visualize the difference I am looking for some drills to help develop the cross through skill.

Thanks as always

S
post #2 of 14
I found that trying to keep my eyeballs the same distance above the snow all the way through the turn helped.  Another thought is to try to keep your hips the same distance above the snow.  To do that you need to have both legs short under you as you go through the transition from one turn to the next.  Extend you legs long at the belly of the turn, suck them up as you go through the transition.  (If you do it right, you will progress from a Cross Through to a Cross Under!)
post #3 of 14
Off snow: An old Swedish team drill is to do a half squat with your feet about shoulder width apart. Then you move your body laterally by flexing one leg while extending the other. Try to keep the body moving laterally instead of allowing any vertical movement to occur. When you can do this add a sports cord to one side and pull against it, then relax and let the cord pull you back where you started. As you get better at this, try standing so the cord is pulling you diagonally forward, then move so it pulls you diagonally backward. The last two activities allow you to do a passive and an active cross through move.
On snow: tug of war drills introduce the idea of a flex to release cross through but it involves a strictly lateral move instead of the diagonally forward move we want to encourage. Adding a forward component isn't easy in this drill though.
post #4 of 14

This is going to seem weird: in a flat traverse hop without bending your knees

 

The idea is to try to get only 2-3 inches of lift from ankle extension only instead of getting lift from leg extension. It's really hard to not "set" before lift off (and then use leg extension).

The idea here is to use new outside leg ankle extension as part of your turn intiation movemement. In order to not "go over" on your transitions, the flex of the new inside leg must be matched by extension of the outside leg. But in order for the hips to go forward and to the inside of the new turn, the outside hip needs to travel more distance than the inside hip. Ankle extension gives you just the right amount of movement of the outside hip and facilitates smoother inside leg flexion.

post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 
Thanks.. I'll try,

Rusty.. would this be not unlike pushing down on the gas pedal on the new outside and lifting toes on the old outside (new inside)?

S
post #6 of 14
Like - yes. The difference for the new outside is that pushing the gas pedal open the ankle joint with a focus of pushing the toes down (heel stays fixed) while the drill puts the focus on lift the heels up (toes stay fixed).
post #7 of 14
To do cross through, the old inside (uphill) leg must flex.  If kept in the same state of flexion, the Center of Mass (CM) will rise as you roll off your edges.  

In cross through, the CM takes a straight line path of travel across the feet.  See drawing at this link.
http://www.yourskicoach.com/YourSkiCoach/cross_through.html

Without flexion of the old inside leg, the CM will pendulum over the feet to some degree like this:
http://www.yourskicoach.com/YourSkiCoach/cross_over.html
post #8 of 14
 TheRusty, I've seen you talking about ILE a couple times lately.  Is it gaining interest in PSIA circles of late?  
post #9 of 14
ILE was PSIA's early weight transfer of the middle 1980s, Rick.
post #10 of 14
Kneale, do you remember the response I received when I first explained the concept of ILE here at Epic a few years ago?  If what you say is true, then apparently at some point along the line it was forgotten about, because the reaction I got here was a mixture of misunderstanding of what it actually is, and objections based on those misconceptions.  Jumping up and down how it was a negative move, moving the CM uphill, and other such innacurate declarations.  It was quite obvious back then that many high level PSIA folk didn't have a clue what I was talking about. 

That's clearly changed around here now, Many at Epic now have a very good handle on ILE, it's components, it's benefits, and it's actual compromises.  I was just wondering, prompted by Rusty's referring to it a couple times recently. if a new popularity and understanding is growing in PSIA ranks outside of Epic.  

It would be a good thing.  ILE carries some clear advantages over retraction, for skiers trying to learn to carve arc to arc.   Many new carvers trying to retract their transitions end up perpetually trapped overly flexed in the back seat, never developing a long and strong outside leg, because they're ever anticipating. the next deep flexion in the coming transition. 
post #11 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post

 TheRusty, I've seen you talking about ILE a couple times lately.  Is it gaining interest in PSIA circles of late?  


Not sure where you're going and not sure we're using the same definitions. In addition to early weight transfer, there's been talk of long leg short leg for ages. If the old inside leg is already short and you're flexing to release, I would call that a retraction turn (both legs flexing). That will allow cross through to happen, but it's not the only way.
post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post

Not sure where you're going and not sure we're using the same definitions.

 


I was inquiring after reading this comment of yours:


Quote:
In order to not "go over" on your transitions, the flex of the new inside leg must be matched by extension of the outside leg.

 But I'll interpret your confusion on what I was asking you as a "no" answer to my question.  If there actually was a new emphasis on ILE perculating through the ranks, you'd know what I was talking about. 

I was kind of surprised when I read what you wrote, as it appeared it might have a bit of ILE influence.  That's why I asked.  Apparently it was just keyboard confusion.  That's more what I would have expected, as this would have been the first I've heard of it. 

My suspicion is that, outside of a few people on Epic, and the PSIA instructors currently using my Building Blocks training program, few in PSIA yet today have a comprehensive understanding of ILE.  Even in teaching organizations outside of PSIA I see terrible confusion about it.  Some well knowns even refer to it as a push off, which it absolutely is not.  Oh well, we'll get them straightened out eventually. 

For the record, ILE can never be done as a cross through.  For new carvers, that's a good thing. 

Steveb, a good drill for learning retraction is skiing short.  Always having ankles/knees/hips flexed to the max as you execute a series of turns.  It develops comfort with going through the transition flexed,  From there, progress to skiing long outside legged at apex, and short again at transition.  Simple but effective. 

Hints for success;  pelvic shift and angulate as you extend your outside leg.  Also, long means 80 percent, not 100. 
post #13 of 14
 Rick, a question - have you ever been a member of PSIA? Anyway, check post #44 here - http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/90270/moving-hips-forward/30#post_1176661
post #14 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

 Rick, a question - have you ever been a member of PSIA? Anyway, check post #44 here - http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/90270/moving-hips-forward/30#post_1176661
 

Hi epic.  Yes, I was a member early on in my coaching career.  I've even operated in the capacity of trainer for the staff at my home resort.  I especially remember the fun it was introducing them to carving on their new shape skis back in 97.  They were absolutely giddy with what they felt upon learning to ride their first clean edge.  

I've also watched with interest as they journeyed through the process of putting together teaching models and technical philosophies in this new world of recreational carving.  Now in my 8th year, my association with Epicski has been very valuable for that.  It's provided me with a unique window into the thinking of PSIA members from all divisions.  It's allowed me to observed in real time the evolution from the days when wide stances and 50/50 weight distribution were pursued,,, and when double knee angulation and skiing totally square was considered state of the art by some factions,,, to the current state of understanding. 

It's been fun watching the level of understanding continuously grow in such impressive ways.  I'm
thrilled to obverve the current emphasis on skills based teaching, and the recognition of the importance of versatility that I've witnessed making its way through the ranks over the last couple of years.  PSIA's ever present efforts to influence and keep pace with the evolution of technique are certainly moving in a positive direction. 

Now, about that Montage of Bud's?  Did you want me to evaluate the transition?  OLE,,, look close.
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