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What is the difference between 1000 step and shuffle skiing?

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
And when to introduce them in the learning chronology?

I fail to understand what ski shuffling is vs stepped ski...

If they are different, should they be introduced at different
levels or are they interchangeable?

Thanks!

MG
post #2 of 17
I find both are very good activities and both help develop independent leg activity (and leg activity in general). Personally I think of the shuffling activity as more of a steering skill and used more for lower to mid level skiers. I find the 1000 steps or the many variations of stepping to be more of an edging activity and while I use more often at the higher level skiers I find you can introduce it at lower levels if you moderate the intensity and the terrain.

As with any activity there is good and bad and many ways to taylor the drill to each students needs. Both need to be blended back to real skiing. It would not surprise me if some people have a different focus or disagree. Todo
post #3 of 17
 I think of both of them as edging drills, but also as balance drills. You can't do them if you are not in balance.
post #4 of 17
Depends upon how they're used.

Both are good drills for encouraging moving the CM into turns, patience through the turn, standing centered on the skis , dynamic balancing, etc.

The shuffle, usually done at slower speeds on flatter skis, also promotes steering, while thousand steps, mostly done at higher speeds, explores edging sensations.  They're also great for warming up cold body parts.

I see no reason to value one over the other.
post #5 of 17
We're talking about moving the feet in two different planes. Typically stepping is done prior to shuffling since balance on one foot requires a fairly centered stance. (aligning the CoM and BoS along the balance axis) Once we discover that alignment, moving the base of support back and forth (shuffling) allows us to explore a wider balance zone since the base of support is being moved to different locations relative to the CoM. As far as what level we use these activities, stepping can start with the first activity in a never ever class, or can be used in advanced classes to help a skier explore a wider range of motion and balance in very dynamic situations. Shuffling has just as wide a range of applications but like I explained it builds on the balancing we discovered doing the stepping activities. So it usually occurs after we've done some stepping activities. Not alway though. Shuffling both feet forward and back during a transition being one example of a shuffling drill without doing any stepping before hand.
Hope that helps.
Ski well my Friends,
JASP
post #6 of 17
OK, I'm going to get a lot of flack for this,but both movements are an interegal part of PMTS's Direct Parallel beginner methodology. The steps are taught with landing the inside ski on it's little toe edge (LTE). I this is done on very little slope, as to not frighten the student. Once the student gets comfortable doing left and right stepping turns, it is time for more of a challenge, ie, first lift ride. Up to a fairly flat green run. Then it is time to do the first traverse. Three steps up and three steps down untill it is time to turn. At this point, the bullfighter turn is introduced. Once the turn is accomplished, we go back and forth untill the student is very proficient and step turns. The key here is to stay out of the falline.

At this point, the shuffle is introduced. The key to the shuffle is to keep in inside ski on it's LTE. It does not take many turns and the student begins to glide through the turn, both skis parallel. On an average, I have taken never-evers from stepping turns through gliding shuffles in 2-2 1/2 hour lessons. At the end of the day, most are doing a rough parallel.

The crux of this is step turns and shuffle turn helps a student to learn about their edges and balance. Done in the sequence I described, can help the student achieve parallel in a short period of time.

rh
post #7 of 17
 There are two variations of the shuffle turn. The easier is done by shuffling the feet back and forth in opposing directions like during a telemark turn. This should be done to a lesser extent though such as heel to toe or less to maintain your base of support. 
The more difficult is to shuffle both feet forward and back at the same time, again to a limited degree so as to maintain a stable base of support. Both drills are beneficial for determining the balance skill efficiency which includes COM over mid foot. 
post #8 of 17
Thread Starter 
Thank you all for you input!
post #9 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterGoa View Post

And when to introduce them in the learning chronology?

I fail to understand what ski shuffling is vs stepped ski...

If they are different, should they be introduced at different
levels or are they interchangeable?

Thanks!

MG
 

1000 steps should leave a herringbone pattern, as the skier steps INTO the turn.  It is primarily a lateral balance exercise.

Shuffling the feet does not have the lateral balance component.  It's often simply a drill to show the skier they can move and not fall down.  It's primarily a fore/aft balance exercise to center the skier.

Shuffling always comes before 1000 steps.
post #10 of 17

Flexing facilitates stepping


Shuffling moves th eBase Of Support
post #11 of 17
Step turns are an integral part of our beginner progression. Shuffling the feet may be introduced in day two or three progressions typically to help center a skier and develop a more parallel position between the skis. Both task, when introduced in a well thought out progression get good results.

Shuffles will facilitate movement into the turn but only if the skier is shuffling through transition. Movement into the turn is built in to the step turn. We have good success with both when properly targeted and used.

We have very skier friendly beginner terrain.
post #12 of 17
Interesting E,
I'm a bit confused by your last post. It just seems a little incongruent with your often stated view on skills in isolatation. Which is why I am hoping you see this as honest curiousity about how all this fits together in your system...
...How do you address the vertical release and re-engagement of the skis and the rotational re-directing of the skis in the air? The herringbone track suggests a bit of both are involved. Overlooking that and keeping a focus on foot to foot balance is what I'm seeing here.
Edited by justanotherskipro - 1/11/10 at 11:34am
post #13 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post




1000 steps should leave a herringbone pattern, as the skier steps INTO the turn.  It is primarily a lateral balance exercise.

Shuffling the feet does not have the lateral balance component.  It's often simply a drill to show the skier they can move and not fall down.  It's primarily a fore/aft balance exercise to center the skier.

Shuffling always comes before 1000 steps.
 

Big E,

I question the your statement that shuffling always comes before 1000 steps. Stepping is far easier than shuffling for the beginner. My former ski school had children chasing each other using steps. Adults can get comfortable using steps because of the lateral balance afforded them using steps. The balance in the shuffle is just not the same. The progression from step to shuffle is far eisier for most adults, tan the reverse.

rh
post #14 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick H View Post




Big E,

I question the your statement that shuffling always comes before 1000 steps. Stepping is far easier than shuffling for the beginner. My former ski school had children chasing each other using steps. Adults can get comfortable using steps because of the lateral balance afforded them using steps. The balance in the shuffle is just not the same. The progression from step to shuffle is far eisier for most adults, tan the reverse.

rh

I think you are confusing 1000 steps with the step turns you do in a beginner lesson.  For advanced skiers, stepping through a turn is harder than shuffling through.  That's certainly true for me.  I never thought of the beginner lesson stepping having any connection to 1000 steps, but now that you mention it I suppose they develop the same skills, at different levels.

BK 
post #15 of 17
Stepping makes an appearance at all levels of skiing. Maybe not as a default move but the RoM and the discipline needed to accurately step ski to ski is something all skiers should strive to own. Same can be said for shuffling the feet to explore dynamic balance and corrective stance adjustments through a wider RoM. In short versatility, flexibility and RoM all go hand in hand. So just because you did a drill as a beginner doesn't mean it has no place in higher end lessons.
I've developed a few drills over the years and to be honest none have the wide range of appropriateness of the 1000 step / shuffle progression. Mostly because it can be used with a variety of different focuses and at so many performance levels. Steering, pressure control, lateral balance, edge releases, edge re engagement, fore / aft balance, hip projection. We use a bit of all of these skills in this drill. Too bad so many instructors, coaches, and skiers overlook it. 
Edited by justanotherskipro - 1/12/10 at 4:17pm
post #16 of 17
JASP

I use stepping when I am in an uncrowded lift maze, particularly if I am moving 2-3 mph. Stepping is a skill that I use alot in different situations. I have not used shuffling in awhile. But now that you mention it, I will look at that skill in a new light.

Rick H
post #17 of 17
 I used both in a lesson yesterday. I like the shuffling to "keep them honest" at transition. The lesson was level 5-6ish, and I'd say that they found the shuffling to be less difficult to do.
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