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another qustion about my form(same pics)

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
some suggestions on my form would be most apprecitated if you intellectual ski instructors would so desire to take the time to look at my pictures.



[ January 13, 2003, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: funkybob ]
post #2 of 25
I like your hands.

It looks to me like you are a bit backseat. Especially in pics. 3 and (I think it was)5. Your inside ski tip is off the ground in both pics. Maybe try to bend at the ankles more, and less at the waist.

That's my non-cert $0.01
post #3 of 25
I'm no instructor, but I would agree with Epic. I think you are in the back seat a little bit. I would also suggest you widen your stance.

Take it for what it's worth, which is less than $0.01.
post #4 of 25
Well funkybob you do display the narrow stance that you said that you like. You appear to be an accomplished skier who is comfortable on most terrain. You display nice upper body stability and good pole usage.
You are a bit in the back seat but that doesn't seem to hinder your ability to turn. Your technique is quite dated but if you like it that is all that counts. Short of a change to a more contemporary style, you have taken your present style to near its limits.
What is it that you are looking for? Are you looking of a complete change or a few suggestions on things to improve your present style?

[ December 30, 2002, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: Pierre ]
post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 
well, I would like to be able to ski, bumps, powder, and crud
so whatever I need to do would be fine.

post #6 of 25
funkybob, how well do you ski those conditions now? From what I can see you have the skills to ski bumps and powder very well. You might have to adjust for crud.
post #7 of 25
Thread Starter 
I can't do bumps!!! its horrible. I'm not to bad in powder even tho ive never been in anything over a foot. I do feel very confident in it so I don't think I would have a problem. back to bumps, I don't know what my problem is but I really am no good at it. so help is welcome!!! I don't ski exactly like that in crud, my feet are farther apart ect...

anyway perhaps that might help
post #8 of 25
Thread Starter 
a few other things,

epic- how do oyu bend you ankles?? my feet are locked into casts(x-wave 10.0's((flex of 110)) )

and I like to ski with that style but thats just what I natually ski like, I change my form and have fun doing other things but if I ski like myself then thats what I look like. so I am definitly open to change especially if it makes me better.


dude I need sleep!
post #9 of 25
Pretty funky Bob! Just kidding. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

It does look like you’ve been skiing with your present stance for quite some time. I see that you are on a modern pair of skis. They will work better for you if you opened the stance a bit more where edge angles could be develop without banking your turn. In most of the pics, it seems that you are back and inside. This alone would make it a tremendous chore to make fluid turns in the bumps, and almost impossible to make a round turn in the powder. I would suggest again, opening up the stance and try to get a feel for the tongue of the boot with the shins. Try to keep the shoulders ahead of the hip better and distribute all body parts over the center of the boots better. IMHO, if you do just these things, your skiing will improve. Hope this helps, and Happy New Year! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] ---------------Wigs
post #10 of 25
Originally posted by funkybob:
a few other things,

epic- how do oyu bend you ankles?? my feet are locked into casts(x-wave 10.0's((flex of 110)) )

Wow! Just by your comment I'd assume your boots were too stiff. You look like a lightweight (no offense). The X-Wave 10 can be softened by a reputable fitter. I'd expect the rivets taken out, probably the spoiler too, and maybe the cuff cut. They'd figure it out.
post #11 of 25
I'm on the Crossmax 10 which is pretty much the same as the XWave 10. Both have got a set of bolts behind the canting screws that you can remove to soften the flex. I think yours also came with two boot boards, a soft one, and a hard one that you bolt in. Try pulling those bolts out and see if it helps. Try to feel the tongue on your shin while you are skiing (you don't need to crush it though).

Try a couple of runs skiing on the front of the ski. I'd imagine that skiing the way you do, you find yourself going way too fast in the bumps and having to bail out. Try and learn to use the front of the ski more and then take that to the bumps.
post #12 of 25

If you're weight is back, boot flex is irrelevant. As others have commented, w/your weight to far back, you're not flexing your boots.

Flexing your boots while skiing requires you to drive your knees forward. This is essential to skiing bumps. I struggled w/them for years unitl I learned to drive my knees forward. I find that often times I lose control in the bumps when my weight is behind me. Hope this makes sense and keep at it.
post #13 of 25

Two things about skiing the bumps; balancing on the up-down, updown terrain, and being able to make the quick pivoty type turns necessary to rein in speed; are very difficult to do if you are skiing back. By back I mean that your body appears to be a bit behind your feet. Your feet look to be out in front. This tends to happen to all skiers and it is something to be constantly checking for. A rough rule-of-thumb is that whenever you are finding it difficult to turn your skis, you are probably back. The solution is simply to pull your feet back beneath you. Experiment with pulling them back so that you think they might be actually behind you. Practice pivoting your feet beneath you with the skis as flat as you can make them. You should be able to do this easily, given your level of ability. If you are finding it difficult, try pulling your feet back, back,back until it is easy. Experiment also with adjusting your fore and aft feet position while skiing over a bump at slow speed. When you ski into the bump you will tend to decelerate. When you ski down the back side your skis will tend to accelerate and this is when your feet will probably move out in front of you, putting you in a bad position to make the turn you will probably want to make to control your speed. Practice anticipating this by pulling your feet back as you crest the bump so that you will be balanced as you come down the downhill side. It may be useful to think of the top of the bump pulling your feet back as you strike it. You can actually make use of the bump this way. As your knees flex to soak up the bump, your feet can be getting pulled backward (by the cushioned impact with the bump)in preparation for the downhill slide. Since the slope at this point will be suddenly be getting momentarily much steeper the very definition of what is centereed or back will change. This is the point where you perceptions may momentarily fail you. This is where really pulling your feet way back may actually be putting you in a merely balanced position.

Practice what may at first seem to be overcontrol of your speed in the bumps. For every turn you think is necessary, make two more. The goal is to get yourself to the point where you feel yourself to be in absolute control of your speed. Turn, turn, turn ,turn anywhere, everywhere in the bumps no matter how inelegant you feel. One day you are going to pull up after having made a passle of awkward feeling turns and find yourself being complemented about how good you look in the bumps! So don't worry about the type of turns you make. Try making linked wedge turns in the bumps if it helps you to remain balanced and in control. In time the moves will become second nature and you can ratchet up the skiing. Anyway the objective is to put yourself in charge rather than be mastered by the terrain. I've found the best way to achieve this whether its an early season refresher or learning to ski bumps for the first time is by skiing them very, very slowly, learning to recognize the typical terrain features you find there. It helps to develop a variety of lines through this type of terrain. It may be useful to spend some time with an instructor who can help point out some of the typical lines like trough to trough or skiing the wave crests that sometimes link the bumps or turning on the tops and pivoting down the soft backsides.

This kind of thing is 90% practice and 10% inspiration, some of which might be in the form of guidance from the critical eye of an experienced teacher.

Have fun!
post #14 of 25
Thread Starter 
thanks for the help! i'll probably go out tommorow and work on it.

post #15 of 25

I guess I’ll throw my .01 cent in to. I like what I see for the most part. I agree with those who suggest you are in the backseat a little and suggest a wider stance. It’s a bit hard to evaluate from pictures, but here are some things to try next time your on the hill.

On easy terrain make medium radius turns, when you start the turn reach down toward your thigh with your outside hand. You should be carving more and feeling a bit of a pinch in your side. The goal is to stop banking in to turns and create a better carve.

Something to focus on the transitions between turns (I know this constantly plagues me). Ideally, you want to move across your skis diagonally to start the turn. The movement has to come from the legs and not the upper body diving forward. If you do it right the transitions are really smooth and you won’t need to pick up. (Our technical director used to threaten to cut off my foot for that)

Here are some things to think about:
-Imagine a box surrounds your skis, to start the turn extend in the direction to the corners. Feel the pressure in the corner of your boot.
-Focus on relaxing your outside leg at the end of the turn, it will make the diagonal move easier.

Hopefully that helps, just one silly level 2 wannabe’s opinion
post #16 of 25
hey bob, there are a lot of very good things happening in those pics methinks. importantly, looks like your having a reasonable amount of fun. technically, you are searching for edge from an uncentred body position, and finding it by dropping your hip into the turn, not a bad way to go, but a wee bit inefficient, especially when you get to the steeper lines or on the very hard stuff; its then you will notice the 'burnin thighs o' fire'. separating the legs as if you are sitting on a thin saddle will get you out of the ole 'austrian leg lock' (a 40 -ish year old technique), then try some nice round 'instructor' turns at a reasonable pace, not too fast mind you, at this point, forget the technical stuff (not forever, just for this run), and feel your feet. where's the weight? try to keep it across the entire foot throughout the entire turn.practice this at slower speeds on a flat hill with your boots undone even, (very flat hill eh. when you make these turns, you might find that a general up and down rythym, where you have constant movement occurs. when you feel that, you can advance this 'feeling' exercise by doing the same thing, (boots nice and secure here tho), at a faster pace, down bluish runs, and now trying to 'feel' the legs out from under the body half way through the turn. remember, kids get better by just having fun and not thinking to much, we will get better faster by having a blast, than by requring improvement to have a blast.feel your feet. feel gravity, manipulate it, don't fight it.
post #17 of 25
Thread Starter 
how do I keep my upper body straighter with my legs? I went out today and it felt good and all that and it didn't seem like I was angulating at the hips, but in the pics we took I wasn't any better.

comments welcom

post #18 of 25
Oh what the hell, I'll jump in for giggles. First thing I would have you work on is keep your stomach muscles tight. Feel like you're pulling your belly button to your spine so you're using your internal abdominals to stabilize your core. This will help prevent you and reduce the need for you tightening your back muscles (erectus spinae?). Tightening these back muscles causes you to hyperextend the back at some or most points in the turn. This effectively locks a very important joint and makes it difficult to maintain separation, angulation, balance on the ski in that order. Keep the stomach tight throughout the turn it will keep the shoulders a little more forward and the balance point much easier to find. You appear to be a very accomplished skier and I expect know the feeling you're looking for and this will make finding it easier. As for your boots, if you have the goofy little rear spoiler still in there take it out. The boots appear to be pushing the you little forward and in the lower leg and that makes you drop the hip back. Do the power strap up tight around your the tongue and leg and do the shell up after that and around the power strap this will help keep you standing taller in the boot and may help you get a more consistent progressive feel for the boot and therefore movement in the ankle. Also helps keep the hips over the feet for an easier to find neutral stance. I agree with the feet apart at least a little more, However it appears you may track the downhill ski in to the uphill ski which leads to you constantly closing the stance even if you fight against it. You should probably have the boot alignment looked at and assess your foot bed/ankle joint for tracking problems. Keeping the stomach tight and preventing the shoulders from going back should prove helpful in bumps and power as well. Check the boots and tighten the abdmominal muscles. OR just keep doing what you're doing and enjoy yourself.
post #19 of 25
Another point I would like to throw in that I do not believe anyone else has mentioned is pole plants when in the bumps. As most have pointed out you tend to be in the back seat a bit, a good solid pole plant on the top of the bump can help this a bit. If you are reaching down the hill with your shoulders square for a pole plant this will keep you balanced and also help you re-center.
Or you could take the advance of Mike Hattrup in the Blizzard of Ahhhhhs, "The key to skiing moguls, is to go to a total panic and then back-off!!"
post #20 of 25

Here's something that might help. If you feel like your ankles are bent, but your weight is back, then what you need to do (and judging from the pictures, I think you should work on) is to bring your femurs more vertical. Right now, they are angled back.

The most likely reason that you have a hard time in the bumps is your balance/stance. Once you are able to bring it forward and get your CM up over your toes, you will find that bumps get a lot easier.

However, you do seem like a fairly accomplished and aggressive skier, so give this a try. It's an exercise I use with upper level students to get them into bumps, and sometimes helps them get their weight forward as well:

Think about a diagonal traverse across a bump (start with only one bump). As you traverse over it, try to pre-jump the crest of the bump so that the middle of the skis do not touch the top of the bump. If you do it too late or from the back seat, you'll just extend and launch off the top. If you do it right, which is a forceful retraction of the legs, it will be a very quick hop over the top of the bump, and the skis will come down on the back of the bump. The idea is to drive the tips of the skis down the back of the bump, ON the snow.

Once you are able to do that, traverse a diagonal line of bumps to get the feel a bit better.

Then, just one bump, but as you drive the tips down the back, turn the skis down the hill and bring them around into a complete turn.

Then, link those together, trying to keep the speed way, way down (this is practice/learning, so don't think I'm saying that you always need to ski bumps slowly). You'll work toward a feeling like you are pre-jumping each bump, but without actually going to the extent of pulling the skis off the ground.

Then, as further practice, look for large bumps on a steep hill, that have very steep backs to them. Moving SLOWLY, do the same thing, pre-jumping the crest of the bump and driving the tips down and into a turn on the steep backside of the bump. Slow yourself way down after every bump.

To be able to pre-jump the bump without launching yourself into orbit, and being able to drive the tips down the back side of the bump, your CM will be forced to be properly positioned.

Hope this helps.

post #21 of 25
I think we're tearing you apart! Honestly, it is difficult to be sure of anything from still photos. First of all they are static and do not really convey your skiing which is a dynamic activity. Camera angles can be deceptive. All sorts of possibilities exist that cannot be known from such images.

It seemed to me that you might be a bit back, particularly since you wrote of your frustration with skiing moguls. Getting back must be the most common fault that bedevils all skiers at times. It really shows up when we have difficulty with short radius or pivoting turns and, since making these is pretty essential to speed control in bumnps, well.........you can see where I'm headed.

I'm not quite sure what you were referring to when you spoke of angulating at the hips. Making angles at the hips is something all good skiers do and not a fault in itself. If you feel that you are making these angles by moving the hips or if you feel that you tend to balance too much at the waist then these could indicates some shortcomings in your technique. Anytime you are attempting to change your skiing it makes sense to revisit some of the fundamental issues, otherwise all your efforts could end up merely reinforcing the elements of your techbique that are getting in your way.

My own feeling is that it would be beneficial for you to forget about the "ten thousand things" for a bit and just get really in touch with your sense of balancing and movement. Consider that you balance from the feet. Try to feel the snow, the terrain, the slope through your feet. Feel yourself balancing with your feet. Getting your feet apart a little will really be useful here. This will aid you in balancing with two feet. With your feet close together they and your lower body tend to work as more of a unit. You want to get back in touch with the freedom of movement and the dynamic movement possible when you are on two feet rather than a single unit.

As you are consciously skiing with your two feet, try to experiment with the range of movements possible from the feet. Lots of people talk about moving the upper body forward or back. Maybe that works for you. I like to think of moving my feet, forward and back, which accomplishes the same thing amd seems easier to actually do, for some reason.

You can also experiment with flexing and un-flexing your legs. Flex them both simultaneously, flex one and extend the other.

I would do these things on gentle terrain at first and then gradually move to terrain with irregularities. Practice skiing from the feet while making turns...all kinds of turns, short medium, long, pivoted. Practice turning your feet, as well, as if you're turning two feet rather than both. Really experiment with opening and closing the angle created betwwen the leg and the ski by flexing the ankle. Practice skating on skis as well as moving from foot to foot.

The object of all this is to get to feeling really loose so that you can increase your ability to move. I would enjoy the experience, delight in reducing the whole complex business to something simple and sensual. In the process you are bound to discover you can ski better than you had realized.

Sorry if this is a bit patronizing. I think we tend to make skiing far too difficult. Every one of us essentially teaches himself. It's apt to be more productive for us to be pointed to the activities that will facilitate this process than attempt to emulate some instructors own description of exactly what he experinces when he skis.

Hope this helps!

[ January 15, 2003, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: arcadie ]
post #22 of 25
Thread Starter 
thanks Arcadie. Ive been working hard on putting my weight forward, and it is paying off in the moguls. It just seemed like some of you said that I shouldn't angle the hips so much. But anyway. i'll work on my centerweighting and angulating my knees and ankles.

post #23 of 25
Don't believe a thing you read. Don't just work on getting yourself forward, try getting yourself back as well. Try to discover what works. After all, whatta we know? You're the only one in your boots!
post #24 of 25
Thread Starter 
your putting ski intructors outa buisness
oh well, better them than me.

[ January 16, 2003, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: funkybob ]
post #25 of 25
funkybob, from what I saw in the pics, you need to see a good professional bootfitter and show him/her these pictures. (Your technique is good.) If he is good, he will either adjust your boots or recommend another type of boots. In the meantime, try skiing with your boots loose - almost unbuckled (at least the top 2 buckles) and constantly feeling the tongues of the boots with your shins. Make a conscious effort to constantly hang on the tongues and see what difference it will make. In moguls, you want a softer-flexing boot than on corduroy.

Don't get too used to it; it's just an exercise simulating a softer boot. (I am not a fan of soft boots at all, but the amount of flex + amount of forward lean should be individual-specific).

I once had stiff boots that were too vertical for me; I skied 2 seasons on them and I could not do moguls, or ice, or anything other than soft groomed (I didn't have skis that wouldn't sink in powder either), or race. I gave those boots to my dad, and the first day on the slope I discovered the fun of moguls and figured out how to tame ice patches that used to throw me on the back. BTW, my dad is having all the fun in the world in these boots!

[ February 06, 2003, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: AlexG ]
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