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ski for bump advancement, not a pro mgul ski - Page 2

post #31 of 37
IMO, with few exceptions, skis are getting more homogeneous, rather than less.  Almost all skis with the same sidecut, width, taper, and flex will ski about the same.  I think that a few years ago, Salomon was trying a different mix of flex to torsional rigidity than other makes, and got eaten alive in the magazine demo tests.  Their skis were more torsionally rigid for a particular flex, so they seemd a little soft, or noodly, especially to magazine demo skiers who were used to more of a race feel, such as Atomic or Fischer.  Salomon apparently gave up on their approach and now moke skis that are stiffer in longitudinal flex.  Everyone else is also aiming for the same feel.  Some brands seem to appeal to lighter skiers, some to heavier skiers, but if a ski maker says the construction is based on a GS ski construction, the ski will be stiff.  If the ski is a soft snow ski,without reinforcing plates, then the ski will be soft, and not all that great on ice.l  I have come to the opinion that the class of ski is much more important than the manufacturer.  The stiffness will also tell you if it is right for your weight and your intended use.

The real challenge is to find a ski that will do what you want to do after you have adapted to the ski, and gained the technique for the terrain you are interested in.  I think that if you take the advice of some of the experts on equipment, such as Sierra Jim, or Dawgcatching, that you will be steered in the right direction, and then yyou should just get a ski that meets your needs.  Then you will be posting telling us how much superior the brand you bought is to all other brands that do the same thing;)
post #32 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOG View Post

IMO, with few exceptions, skis are getting more homogeneous, rather than less.  Almost all skis with the same sidecut, width, taper, and flex will ski about the same.  I think that a few years ago, Salomon was trying a different mix of flex to torsional rigidity than other makes, and got eaten alive in the magazine demo tests.  Their skis were more torsionally rigid for a particular flex, so they seemd a little soft, or noodly, especially to magazine demo skiers who were used to more of a race feel, such as Atomic or Fischer.  Salomon apparently gave up on their approach and now moke skis that are stiffer in longitudinal flex.  Everyone else is also aiming for the same feel.  Some brands seem to appeal to lighter skiers, some to heavier skiers, but if a ski maker says the construction is based on a GS ski construction, the ski will be stiff.  If the ski is a soft snow ski,without reinforcing plates, then the ski will be soft, and not all that great on ice.l  I have come to the opinion that the class of ski is much more important than the manufacturer.  The stiffness will also tell you if it is right for your weight and your intended use.

The real challenge is to find a ski that will do what you want to do after you have adapted to the ski, and gained the technique for the terrain you are interested in.  I think that if you take the advice of some of the experts on equipment, such as Sierra Jim, or Dawgcatching, that you will be steered in the right direction, and then yyou should just get a ski that meets your needs.  Then you will be posting telling us how much superior the brand you bought is to all other brands that do the same thing;)
 

Fog, well said.  Thats probably the psot of the week in gear discussion. The differences between brands are IMO very subtle. I remeber a few years ago it seemed that every manufacturer had a 76 or 78mm midfat wiht an 18m radius. I demoed 6 or 7 different skis from 4 different manufacturers. They skied amost exactly the same but with slightly differnet feel to each. 
post #33 of 37
Thread Starter 
Thats a few excellent points. My purchase of gotamas in the 190 size is directly related to sierra jims video. At the end of his video review he states quite clearly that if your a little heavier than him "you might want to try the 190's". As far as skis being homogeneous I started this thread declaring my love for the salomon xwing, noting their perpensity to be a bit hooky. A quick look at the wide fan tail explains why. Now i find the salomon lord to be very similar in quickness and speed but the rounded flip tail is soft out of the turns.... in short they are somewhat similar even though the numbers would say otherwise. 

the five skis i skied this week were more similar than different.

btw , when i used to live in D.C. i spent many a weekend at seven springs resort and had lots of good runs there. Is it still popular ?
post #34 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOG View Post

IMO, with few exceptions, skis are getting more homogeneous, rather than less.  Almost all skis with the same sidecut, width, taper, and flex will ski about the same.

I must heartily disagree.  Probably the most surprising thing from my demos this season is how skis that look like they should be the same on paper ended up skiing totally different (like night and day different).  I didn't post my reviews this season and I doubt I will - I question the benefit of my demos for other people and with that new viewpoint I decided not to post them.  However, I did ride over 20 different skis over 2 days right before Thanksgiving.  I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, but it's not one that I share even slightly.
post #35 of 37

Bostonguy -- this is a great thread; thanks for starting it.  Interesting that you liked the Salomon Lord.  Two different ski shops have recommended it to me.  OTOH, the Lord didn't do too well in the RealSkiers tests this year, FWIW.

Last Friday, I demo'ed the Volkl AC-30, which I picked up from my LSS here in DC before heading out to a local place (the Wisp Resort) with my son.  The LSS only had two skis I was interested in demo-ing; I'll try the other (Stockli Stormrider XXL) the next time out.  I thought the AC-30 was fine for the groomed hardpack that Wisp mostly offers -- in fact, probably not surprisingly -- the AC-30 felt more stable and secure on the few but fun steeps than my current skis, AC-20s.  I don't know if that is due to the AC-30's greater heft or length (170 vs. 163) compared to my AC-20s. 

I tried them just a little on ungroomed / bumps -- before my son broke his wrist and we had to cut short our trip -- and they were fine.  It seemed they were a little harder to whip around -- maybe the increased length -- but they felt very steady over the bumps.  Were they optimal?  Probably not for that purpose.  But, as someone else said, we rarely ski just bumps on any given day. 

 

      

post #36 of 37

6'-1" 200 lbs - Live in the east, ski a lot in the West - love my Recon's in a 181 for precisley what you are looking for.  I can fling those in the bumps better than my old straight Salomon 3s's in a 190, but you have to get the recon without the integrated binding - the ski will give you a bit more feedback.  The integrated binding makes it a bit too damp for me.

post #37 of 37
Thread Starter 
I really liked the recon. the ones i had did not have an integrated binding system. If i had been demoing those just to be sure...I'd have bought them.Like i said earlier the day to day comparisons really helped me to distinguish small nuances between arguably similar skis. Yesterday i rode the volkl ac 30, the ac 50, and the elan magfire 82. I came home and slept on it and i have made a decision. But first things first.

The volkl ac30 was as i usually find all volkl's, a great ski. Nimble enough but fairly precise with good all around qualities. If i had to give a downside for my intended use I would say its a bit heavy and a bit deliberate (ever so slightly). It didnt plow through as well as i would like.

The volkl ac50 I took out just because i could, its not the type of ski i'm shopping for. As expected it was a ripper, a fine precision implement. If I didn't have a set of xwing tornadoes I would own this ski.

the elan magfire 82 was a great all mountain ski with no downside that i could determine. It was really quick side to side,held and edge well (east coast edge), plowed through piles ... maybe just a tad stiff for my needs.

So after what i consider to be a fairly thorough evaluation process heres what i came up with, keep in mind that i thought of all of theses skis as at least "very good". A different evaluator or a person with a different set of needs could come out with a different end result.

second runner up..........k2 apache recon

first runner up..........magfire 82 xti lime fusion

and the winner is...................SALOMON LORD

i never saw that coming when i started out but in the end this ski fit my need exactly. theyre being mounted with a set of marker griffons.

I would like to thank Steve Edburg of Breckenridge ski school for the recommendation. I had never heard of the ski but in listening to my needs you pointed me to my answer....thanx shredburg.


jimski, i found several reports that were favorable to the salomon lord so i am surprised to hear that. You must keep in mind my goal was not to find the perfect ski but to find a ski that fills a small hole in my quiver. That being said i feel this is a great all around ski.The needle falls on the forgiving side as opposed to the exacting side and its been my experience that some reviewers dont favor a ski like that. MY suggestion to you is demo a pair and judge for yourself and keep in mind if i had just demoed the k2's i may well have bought them.
best of luck in your search.

BTW... if i was going to buy a "one ski quiver" ski....it would have been the magfire 82 xti lime fusion
Edited by thebostonguy - 1/20/10 at 9:08am
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