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09 lange banshee boot fit - feet rotate in boot?

post #1 of 6
Thread Starter 
Hi All,

Firstly I'd like to thank you in advance for your responses.

I purchased a pair of these bad boys ('09 lange banshee) this year to replace my many years old (~2002) lange banshee 9. My old boots were packed out and would get tremendously sloppy when the weather got warm, and I was looking forward to a solid hold with the new boots.

I am 5'10", 150lbs, and ski aggressively off piste crud/powder/double black etc. mostly in the lake tahoe area. I have a narrow ankle/heel, medium width, and pretty low 'height' in the forefoot.

Long story short, they hurt when I first put them on in the room for 10 minutes - mainly on the outside of my feet right behind the pinky toe where the 5th metatarsal starts (or ends).

When I skied the boots they hurt at that same points but much more and after a few spirited runs I knew I needed adjustments. I took them to the boot fitters and got custom footbeds which made the boots better but did not improve the pressure points. I had red spots on the points behind the pinkies on both feet after skiing.

Next they opened up some room by grinding the spots I identified. This pretty much resolved the pressure points, but after skiing with them some more I came to the problem I have now.

My left foot is mostly bearable. On the right, I have a strange feeling of my foot being rotated to the outside, i.e. the forefoot going to the right and the heel to the left. In any case the outside of my foot gets cramped with throbbing pain and numb after some time, causing tremendous pain when turning. Being timid on the foot was making me compensate with all kinds of bad technique which made skiing the way I like miserable and difficult. To make matters worst, I have vertical forefoot movement if I don't buckle down hard on the fronts. But when I buckle down, the outside (blade of the foot?) gets BAD. I am at a loss for which way to go from here.

Another thing that worries me is the flex - these are "plug boots" with the RL11 shell and 125 flex. I might have gone too stiff relative to my wieght and strength, in which case I don't know what I can do about it (train more?!?!). I would like to hear your opinions on the effects of not being able to properly flex the boot. Could it lead to the issues I'm having? Is is possible to loosen it up a bit?


Here is some info AFTER the custom footbeds and grinding:

Unbluckled - feels better
Unbuckled dangling on the lift - feet are alive at the top, but after buckling it takes only 5 turns to get back to screaming pain
Walking - feels ok
I use thin socks
Once the pain starts it is there on steeps and mellow groomers, although its worst on the steeps where you brake on every turn as opposed to carving

Thanks for you time and sorry for the long post.

tree


p.s. I have been through a lot of old threads like:
http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/1029/please-help-me-boot-foot-related
which describes a similar situation and will try the pre-skiing toe stretches and warm-up routines next time up.
post #2 of 6
     Don't tighten the lower 2 buckles---just keep them closed  (sound like you are pinching your dorsal pedis nerve)---tighten the heck out of the ankle buckle to the point of hurting--- then back off to a point the boot just becomes comfortable, this will hold your foot back in the shell (it sound like the shell is narrow enough to hold you centered with out being tightened). 
     A boot will seem too stiff if you have a slim leg(less than 13 inches of circumference) and your COM is being held behind boot sole center.  If this is the case, find a fitter that is knowledgeable about fore/aft balance issues.
post #3 of 6

hi Tree

excellent points from Miketsc re: lower buckle tightening and balance.  you did not mention if you had a custom footbed or orthotic but your pressure points seem classic pronatory symptoms.  widening the boot on the outside does indeed rotate your foot somewhat.  Try a good custom bed from an experienced fitter and consider gaining any width required equally on both sides.  as for the vertical movement a tongue shim glued onto the Tongue can do wonders for the heel hold and stabilization issue without too much clamping pressure!
 

good luck

s

post #4 of 6
Thread Starter 
Thank you for the replies.

Mike,

By the ankle buckle you mean the second from the bottom, or is it the lower shin buckle? (I see you said don't over-tighten the two lowers so it must be the latter?)

Also, which part of the leg should I check the circumference on? I definitely have a slim leg but don't know how much. The balance issue sounds right on point, because I found myself lifting the back of the skis to turn comfortably in uneven snow - which could be caused by my COM being too far back. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Can you elaborate on the fore/aft balance issues? And any recommendations on bootfiters in south lake tahoe? I think my fitters are knowledgeable and will go back to them first for balance issues, but I'd like another reference for backup.


Sandy,

I already have custom footbeds - (instaprints if I'm not mistaken). My heel hold seems OK, it's the forefoot that moves up and down a bit. I have a narrow shin and I just moved back the buckles the last day. I will experiment with tightening there and then look into the tongue shim.

thanks,
tree
post #5 of 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by tree View Post

Thank you for the replies.

Mike,


Also, which part of the leg should I check the circumference on? I definitely have a slim leg but don't know how much. The balance issue sounds right on point, because I found myself lifting the back of the skis to turn comfortably in uneven snow - which could be caused by my COM being too far back. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Can you elaborate on the fore/aft balance issues? And any recommendations on bootfiters in south lake tahoe? I think my fitters are knowledgeable and will go back to them first for balance issues, but I'd like another reference for backup.


 

     Measure your leg circumference at the top of the cuff of the liner----below 13 inches of circumference will allow you to bring your leg to far upright to a point of standing on your heel at transition.  This will overload the tail of the ski just as you are trying to pivot  onto the new downhill ski.  You will be forced to pick up your uphill ski to get off of it's uphill edge.  You will also be off balance to the rear on both legs often finding the boot too stiff.  using a tongue thickener to push your heel back will also push your calf back instead make sure you have found the tightest position on the second buckle from the top (ankle buckle) this will hold your heel back and allow you to add a spoiler.

     As far as a recommendation for a bootfitter I would have to say that Fore/aft balance issues are looked at differently by some bootfitters I have spoken with. 

     You could try adding whatever thickness spoiler needed to make your calf circumference = 13.5 inches.  This would be a starting point to work from, but the balance point in a overlap shell boot is only about 2mm wide at the top of the back of your shell.  You may need to add several layers of duck tap across the spoiler to thicken it to push you into the best position  (in general 5 layers of tape = 1mm thickness).  This could be done on the hill using several strips of 2 inch wide by 3 inch long pieces stored (stuck) inside your parka till you get out on the hill.   I would be willing to speak with you about this issue by phone, my number is listed on my bio.
post #6 of 6
Thread Starter 

thank you Mike, I will try to call you.

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