or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Starting a Turn at the ANKLES
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Starting a Turn at the ANKLES

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Spent some time last time up starting and turning with simultaneous ankle lateral manipulation (terms may be wrong). I have noticed how my skiing was looking and was a little ragged in the moguls.  So remembering a tip from Robin Barnes last ESA at Big Sky.  Roll your ankles.  I started doing this in the moguls and it seemed to work well on keeping my skis parrallel and more together instead of one way in front of the other and even stemming.

I tried to be dynamic as possible but afterward thought maybe I was throwing them around a little.  Any suggestions on this and maybe it's smoother application into my skiing especially moguls and powder application.  Home with a cold so thinking more patience after the tip etc.

Me.  194 5'11 Old on 178 Afterburners most of the time.   Thanks   Pete
post #2 of 20
 What did Robin say about starting the turns with the ankles?
post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by prjb1 View Post

 What did Robin say about starting the turns with the ankles?

I may get this wrong but heres what we did.

On the floor, laid our poles side by side (with st. shoes on) stepped got on top of poles and rolled L and R , On and Off with our ankles. To tell you the truth I don't remember what was said about starting the turn.   When I triedd this the other day I just used my ankle first, then my feet to change edges of both ski's simultaneously.  May be doing it completely wrong, thats why I asked the question.  Any help appreciated.
post #4 of 20
 I think you are on the right track.  So many of us start our turns with the upper body instead of the base of support(BOS).  By thinking of the ankles we can move more appropriately to start the turn.  Although it may not be correct in terms of biomechanics it is much easier to stay in balance moving from the BOS than the upper body.  The next step would be to work on you're for aft movement through the moguls while maintaining ski to snow contact through flexion/extension of the knee and hip and pelvis angle.  So use your knees and hips and pelvis angle and to absorb and extend over the terrain.  Maintain flexed ankles.  Work on being extended before the bump and flexing over the bump to stay for/aft balanced.
post #5 of 20
The idea that a ski turn is best initiated  by ‘rolling the ankle’ is apparently accepted by most skiers.
 
What is the reasoning behind or basis of this commonly shared thinking?
 
Why would a skier choose to pronate the ankle, which would rotate the leg, unlock the forefoot inhibiting the ability to maintain pressure on the ball of the foot and misalign the kinetic chain, knowing that the load and force will continue to increase throughout the turn?
 
Is it necessary or just a way we choose to do it?
 
Are there alternatives or is it the only way to ski?    
 
 
post #6 of 20
This may sound weird to some but when free skiing, I like my boots buckled real loose for the flex and drive I get from my ankles. Course, i like skiing without poles too.
post #7 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete No. Idaho View Post




I may get this wrong but heres what we did.

On the floor, laid our poles side by side (with st. shoes on) stepped got on top of poles and rolled L and R , On and Off with our ankles. To tell you the truth I don't remember what was said about starting the turn.   When I triedd this the other day I just used my ankle first, then my feet to change edges of both ski's simultaneously.  May be doing it completely wrong, that's why I asked the question.  Any help appreciated.

When you do that drill make sure you are not swaying your hips. You want to isolate your movement towards tipping the ankles. I did this in the sun with shadows projected before us and it made the difference very evident. It takes discipline to not engage the hips in order to get on edges. Try initiating your turns by moving onto your inside edges using only this tipping and be patient to feel the ski moving into the turn so you are allowing the ski to turn you as opposed to shaping your turn using other forces that might displace your tracking. It's like a patience turn for the top of your turn .

Tip and balance over your tipped edges to get the feel on skis what this  pole drill is intended for you to discover.

Got pasty snow ?  Tip early.
Edited by GarryZ - 1/4/10 at 7:58pm
post #8 of 20
Thread Starter 
thanks GarryZ, never thought of the hips controlling the turn when doing this.  When I was really accentuating this the other day in the moguls (face Lookout) I was probably throwing my hip over also.   thanks, good point I didn't think of.  Do you ski powder this way, tipping both over together starting with the ankles.  LARS if you could answer would appreciate too.
post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete No. Idaho View Post

thanks GarryZ, never thought of the hips controlling the turn when doing this.  When I was really accentuating this the other day in the moguls (face Lookout) I was probably throwing my hip over also.   thanks, good point I didn't think of.  Do you ski powder this way, tipping both over together starting with the ankles.  LARS if you could answer would appreciate too.

No I don't Pete. I actually ski powder much to way I always have using a platform instead of laying them over. I for some reason still like skiing in the snow rather than on the top. I also use an 80 flex boot cause it gives me a better feel for the surface especially in moguls it allows me to push my toes down thus the tips down.
post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post




No I don't Pete. I actually ski powder much to way I always have using a platform instead of laying them over. I for some reason still like skiing in the snow rather than on the top. I also use an 80 flex boot cause it gives me a better feel for the surface especially in moguls it allows me to push my toes down thus the tips down.
 

 OK sounds like sorta the way I ski. But, can't I move/turn my platform by rolling the ankles and basically waiting when in powder?

Been playing with it on groomers and moguls but haven't tried in powder yet. (been holed up with cold)

 

post #11 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete No. Idaho View Post



 OK sounds like sorta the way I ski. But, can't I move/turn my platform by rolling the ankles and basically waiting when in powder?

Been playing with it on groomers and moguls but haven't tried in powder yet. (been holed up with cold)

 


God Pete, you got me thinking how i ski now. I hate thinking about what I do when I ski. Sitting here moving my ankles while watching football and typing, I guess I do flex dem bones derr somewhat but not as much. I ski powder alot like I ski bumps.
post #12 of 20
I've got to add that I think the reason for that is most of my powder days are spent in moguls and trees where the technique is very similar. The only time I get to really rip in wide open powder bowls are on the trips out West. If there's any hesitation with any part of my skiing experience it's ripping high speed in big open powder fields. I just don't get to do it that much. I still prefer to ski it a little slower and down in it. I'd think if you rip powder at high speed you'd need some ankle angulation to get the carve.
post #13 of 20
Thread Starter 
Thanks,   Bosie State is winning with l:06 left and TCU has 99 yards to score.  Go Idaho
post #14 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete No. Idaho View Post

thanks GarryZ, never thought of the hips controlling the turn when doing this.  When I was really accentuating this the other day in the moguls (face Lookout) I was probably throwing my hip over also.   thanks, good point I didn't think of.  Do you ski powder this way, tipping both over together starting with the ankles.  LARS if you could answer would appreciate too.
Hi Pete. i think this is a good movement everywhere and especially on deep very heavy snow. It's the tipping that gets the ski turning when any pivoting will be resisted . In the trees I try to stand on the middle of my skis and turn early using whatever tipping  I need to get it done  balancing over the ski to turn instead of trying to muscle my skis into a turn by moving into it too fast with my mass. If you balance over them to turn them it's just a safer plan of action that leaves you with more options than committing too early  with your upper body into a necessary turn.
In deep  powder snow you have more options and  I try to use all  the ways  I can to get the shape I want. and the top of the turn is less important than a good finish.  Powder skiing is fun because of the third dimension is more fully expressed   than  in less light snow that  we just move along the top few inches and  there a technique built on tipping  early and balancing over an edged ski works very well.



I
post #15 of 20
Putting the skis on edge by rolling the ankles (and the movements that would traditionally follow) is much more than just a "tip". It can change how you ski.
post #16 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post

Putting the skis on edge by rolling the ankles (and the movements that would traditionally follow) is much more than just a "tip". It can change how you ski.
 
Anxious to try it some more and experiment.  Works well in the moguls and helped me keep my skis matched and parrallel. Any special tips you can give me for powder?



Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post



Hi Pete. i think this is a good movement everywhere and especially on deep very heavy snow. It's the tipping that gets the ski turning when any pivoting will be resisted . In the trees I try to stand on the middle of my skis and turn early using whatever tipping  I need to get it done  balancing over the ski to turn instead of trying to muscle my skis into a turn by moving into it too fast with my mass. If you balance over them to turn them it's just a safer plan of action that leaves you with more options than committing too early  with your upper body into a necessary turn.
In deep  powder snow you have more options and  I try to use all  the ways  I can to get the shape I want. and the top of the turn is less important than a good finish.  Powder skiing is fun because of the third dimension is more fully expressed   than  in less light snow that  we just move along the top few inches and  there a technique built on tipping  early and balancing over an edged ski works very well.



I

 
thanks GarryZ will try next time up.
post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete No. Idaho View Post

Anxious to try it some more and experiment.  Works well in the moguls and helped me keep my skis matched and parrallel. Any special tips you can give me for powder?

I think that you will find that starting all of your turns with tipping your skis on edge as your primary movement pattern you will find it applicable to turns everywhere on the mountain - bumps, groomers, powder, etc. The better you can execute this simple movement pattern (practice on easy terrain), the more your skiing will improve. Keep it up.
post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete No. Idaho View Post

Thanks,   Bosie State is winning with l:06 left and TCU has 99 yards to score.  Go Idaho

Perspective How 'bout them Vandals too, eh ?
post #19 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post




I think that you will find that starting all of your turns with tipping your skis on edge as your primary movement pattern you will find it applicable to turns everywhere on the mountain - bumps, groomers, powder, etc. The better you can execute this simple movement pattern (practice on easy terrain), the more your skiing will improve. Keep it up.
 

I am really looking forward to refining this move.  I  have never actually skied a run with this as my primary/first movement.  Sort of opened my eyes the other day in the moguls.  Looking forward to playing with this move, can see where it would be applicable to all types of terrain.   Hopefully make me a better skier in the powder and off piste.  Thankyou
post #20 of 20
Pete,  the muscles in our legs are stronger to tip the foot in (eversion) than to tip the foot outward (inversion).  If you lead with the weaker muscles, the stronger muscles will easily follow and match better.  To turn right, invert the right foot.  Tip the right foot so the big toe edge of the ski tries to lift off the snow.  Then tip it more and more and more, smoothly and progressively.  You do not need to put any effort into tipping the outside foot to its big toe edge.  If you stand up right now and invert one foot, you'll tend to fall over that way.  Instead of falling, you'll find your body balancing itself by putting both feet on edge.  On skis, you'll turn.  Put your effort into inverting the foot on the side you want to turn towards.  Allow the knee to fall toward the hill.  Allow the hip to fall toward the hill, all the while tipping that foot more and more and more.  Allowing the knee and hip to move toward the hill means zero effort to do so...all the effort is in the ankle.  Angulate and counter your upper body to maintain balance, and you're turning smoothly.  To make these turns more powerful, lighten the inside foot and at the same time pull it strongly backward as the same time you're tipping it more and more.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Starting a Turn at the ANKLES