or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Fischer Progressor 8+

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

Progressor 8+, 170cm.
 

Skier:
Level 7

6'2" ~190 lbs.
 

This review is directed at skiers of similar ability to myself.
 

Recent skies: Fischer RX8, Dynastar Contact 10, Head IM77 Chip(06 model).
 

I have 12 days on the 8+. Conditions have varied from spring mashed potatos, true morning ice with death cookies, soft hardpack, and a foot or so of fresh snow. i.e. pretty much what one would expect to see in the East during a season.

 

Compared to the RX8, the 8+ is not as quick from edge-to-edge but is a LOT more versatile and signifigantly more stable. IMO, the 8+ has more in common with the Contact 10 than the RX8. For me, it feels like a quicker, stouter, more stable, and less damp Contact 10.
 

Regarding the 'dual sidecut', the tip of the ski has a relatively deep sidecut but this only extends to about the top 1/5th of the running surface of the ski -- about to the S on the FISCHER logo on the front of the ski. The remaining length of the ski has a traditional 17M sidecut. IMO, this feature seems to assist with initiating and releasing turns, rather than than making the ski equally adept at short and long turns. I also found that short turns require more attention, as the ski breaks in and out of turns so easily. I think anyone who skis the 8+ will notice right away that the tails and edges releases a lot easier than you may be used to. The ski feels the smoothest and most stable when making medium to long turns


Forgiveness:


The sidecut makes relaxed brushed turns a breeze, IMO. When making brushed turns, especially on steeper terrain, it's pretty easy to get a little bit of hangup in the tail on the Contact 10 if you aren't paying attention. On the 8+, as long as you stay centered, you can pretty much fall asleep. The 8+ pivots very well but you need to stay centered, because the ski has a tendency to go a bit bonkers if you sit on the tails and skid. It is not as forgiving as the RX8 and Contact 10 in this regards. I have found the 8+ to be pretty sensitive to fore-aft balance changes and the tail is noticeably stiffer than on the RX8 or Contact 10. I do not claim to be an expert with perfect form and I do get in the back seat when my confidence gets shaken on steeper pitches. When this happens on the RX8 or Contact 10, they both will give subtle hints. The 8+ is more forecefull in terms of hints and is prone to jetting if you ignore the warning signals. It's a good learning tool as it makes you pay attention but will also give pretty quick feedback that something is wrong before totally running away from you.


Feedback and Feel:
 

Like other Fischer skis I have tried, the P8 has a light but stable feel to it. Feedback from the running surface is very pronounced. The Contact 10 has a more glued-to-the-snow feel and the feel for the snow surface isn't as pronounced. For instance, when skiing in fresh snow cover and hitting some bare spots with ice or sleet, the Contact 10 might make a subtle metallic pinging sound. On the P8, I immediately feel the vibrations in the feet and shins. The IM77 is pretty much dead--I probably won't even notice it until I start to slip. This is a matter of preference and is either a positive or a negative. I like the instant feedback and enjoy this feel that Fischer skis always seem to have--at least the ones I have tried.


Stability:
 

Stability has been one of the high points of the P8 for me, especially as speeds pick up. On the RX8, it's been easy for me to get a bit paranoid when headed for a field of chop or crud while carying a bit of speed, anticipating buffeting and wobbles. Certainly, part of this is due to technique and I won't blame it all on the gear. With that being said, the RX8 does seem to have a tendency to get rather squirelly in crud. The 8+ has been as good as the IM77 in crud or spring slop, to the point that you can almost ignore it, except for having to put more even pressure on both skis. I have not found the speed limit on the P8. I would not classify myself a fast skier by any means so I cannot comment on the stability at race speeds. All I can say is that the 8+ likely will make you more comfortable with higher speeds. The RX8 can wobble a bit, but, provided you stay centered, the P8 goes where it is pointed and does not flinch, at all, regardless of what's in it's path. Sideslipping, traversing at speed, or straightling a narrow section of trail is very easy and confidence inspiring -- again, provided that you stay centered.


Edge Grip/Control:
 

I cannot link perfect carved arcs and am not sure if this is really what I am trying to do in terms of skill development. I can comment on scarving, pivoting, steering, and brushing. I did not actually notice a whole lot of difference in overal grip between the RX8 and P8. The RX8 will be quicker from edge-to-edge but they seem to me to be equals in all regards when it comes to edge grip -- on ice, on hardpack, or softer snow. I have not been able to distinguish the two in terms of edgehold. The P8 does best when using clean and even tipping of the skis, whether you are scarving, carving, or brushing/steering the turn. As said before, the P8 does not really like to be pushed off on the tails. If you do rely heavily on the tails to start or control a turn by pushing, you will either be forced to adjust or will not be having a lot of fun.


Moguls:
 

I can navigate them, I can "get by." But they are not my forte or interest, to be honest. On steep and/or hard moguls, I often am tentative. I have not had a lot of time on the P8 in this environment but can say they appear to be more challening than the RX8 in this department. The relative fore-aft sensititvy of the P8 makes timing and choice of line more critical. I wiped out pretty nicely going over the top when I was aiming for a trough and got too far back on my heels. Again, the advantage here is that the P8 will force one to improve and pay more attention to stance.


Medium/Long turns:
 

With the ease of edge change, it seems like the P8 turns itself when moving at a fair clip in a longer arc. Very subtle changes in pressure are required to get the ski out of a turn and moving towards the fallline, whether scarving or brushing. It is either my technique, binding position, or the ski, but I found that the P8 can get a bit upset at gross movements. In this regards, I found it responds best to finesse when skiing long turns. IMO, the RX8 requires more strength to hold onto a long turn. The P8 is very stable and very smooth, and this is where I think this ski feels at home on my feet. YMMV.


Short turns:
 

I found short turns to be more challenging. Edgehold is certainly there and short turns are certainly doable, but the tips initiate so quickly and break out of a turn so easily, that I find myself paying a lot of attention to how I am pressuring the front of the ski. Yes, technique comes in here, but I think it is more attention than I would like to have to pay and have to give the RX8 the nod in this regards. The P8 is not a slouch for short turns but it's not it's forte. IMO, of course.


Fun Factor:
 

I found the 8+ to have enough stability, heft, and edge-grip to handle speed and vastly varying conditions, but it also has a playfull personality. It pivots and swings nicely and it's very easy to do some 360 spin-arounds on flat terrain. It is not a twintip and has only a very modest upturn to the tail section, but I actually found it relatively easy to ski it switch, which is odd, because I never found it easy to ski switch on anything other than a twintip. Not that I would reccomend the P8 for such things, but I am just commenting on the general nature of the ski.


Overall Impressions:
 

I suspect the P8 would probably make a great all-day ski for many Eastern skiers, even some Western skiers as an inbounds ski. I think it likely has a wide ability level and Fischers recomendation of levels 5-8 seems pretty accurate. It's not so stiff enough that you can't grow with it, but it's demanding enough to force you to pay attention to your game. In that sense, it should be a very good learning/advancement tool for someone with an ability level similar to mine.


For those of similar ability looking at the Progressor line, get the 8+. I did demo the 9, and although I did not find it lightyears ahead in terms of the demand it puts on you, it is heavier, a bit stiffer, and does not pivot or respond as well at slower speeds. Unless you totally rip, I would leave the ego at the door. You will likely be happier in the long-run.

 

 

 

post #2 of 22
 Nice, thorough review.  I just picked up a pair myself,  Haven't skied them yet, though.  Funny you wrote "I would leave the ego at the door" referring to the 9 vs. the 8.  I had the same thought myself - my ego said "you need the 9" when I'll probably be more than happy with the 8.

Anyways, I haven't demoed either Progressor, but I jumped on a great deal, so I figured why not give 'em a try.  I'll add my 2 cents once I get a few turns in.
post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
A fun ski. You will enjoy it. 

I look at it this way: most rec skiers, myself included, seem to own a ski for three years before looking at something else. I don't think someone at a level similar to mine wold outgrow the ski in three years. They might get bored with it and want something else, but likely not find that they have advanced beyond the skis performance level and wish they had got the 9. IMO, of course. I am not claiming to be an expert on ski performance. 

My recollections of the P9 demo in comparison to the P8 didn't really lead me to the conclusion that the P9 was all that much more demanding, it just didn't react the same way at lower speeds and is heavier. It is obviously stiffer, has a different binding system, and is designed for a skier who wants to push it to high speeds. In that regards, I guess the P9 would be a more expensive option that turns out to be overkill for some.

I also have really come to enjoy the railflex binding setup over the years. Being able to adjust the fore-aft binding position comes in handy.
post #4 of 22
Great review!!!

This is exactly the ski that I was contemplating if (when) I replace my Speedwave 10. I demo-ed the P7 last year (all P8 was out that day) and found your description to also fit the P7 very well, and the rep said the P8 is basically a slightly stiffer and higher performance of the P7.
And compared to my SW10, on cruds the P8 is definitely easier on knees and ankle & feel more stable.
post #5 of 22
 I've got the Progressor 8, put two days on them so far.

I've found that with moguls, feet real close, and a lot of lifting going on. Yes, they are heavy, and line selection is crucial. But you'll want the feet together, and they come alive in short turns.

I also completely bombed down come cruisers and felt that they had terrific edge hold. Real easy to just let them plant. Love the feedback they give to you. No complaints yet, outside of the topsheet seemingly being prone to a little bit of chipping.
post #6 of 22
Thread Starter 
Topsheets on Fischers I have owned do seem to chip and scratch relatively easy. I have also heard about problems with delamination on some of their models.
post #7 of 22
 Yeah--I had a pair of 2005 RX-6s that I delaminated on the first day this year...they are now my rock skis.

Thinking it's just the very top, it's almost like plastic-wrap over the actual topsheet. No worries. Rest of it looks in super solid shape, though. Super happy so far. Taking 'em in the woods again tomorrow, so will report back if it looks like hell.
post #8 of 22
MojoMan,
Good review; and your impressions are very similar to mine.  I've now skied mine in about 6" of new snow, crud, cookies, ice, and the like.  They are the most fun carver I've had (but then again, I haven't owned that many skis, and most of them were well, uh, twintips!)And they are surprisingly versatile for their dimensions.

I'm a 5'10" female, 160 lb and skiing the 165's.

I've skied some women's carving skis and most of them just didn't suit me.  I really think a lot of women would like this ski, if they would just give a unisex ski a chance, especially since they can adjust the position of the Railflex binding 0.5 cm fore/aft.

They do teach me to keep my weight balanced.  I moved the Railflex bindings from +0.5 back to 0 , and it's much easier for me to get on the sweet spot, since my weight is fairly well forward to begin with.  They are fairly easy on my complaining left knee, despite the strong snow feedback, whereas my other skis are not. 

I got to take them in a blue mogul run and they made it much easier for me.  I've found their flex to be very nice, not too soft nor too stiff, and I haven't noticed the stiffness in the tails that some speak of.  They hold as if on rails in a carve, but they do allow you to skid around through turns without getting testy....but, I'm trying NOT to do this and just let them carve....which they do, effortlessly, if you just let them ride.

I'm anxious for my leg to get stronger and hence my knee to stop complaining so I can drive them harder.

They are a great ski to improve my skills on.  They have become my go-to ski here in the East.  And now mine sport an EpicSki Academy Sticker to distinguish them from the other pairs around here....they are becoming popular in these parts.  I LOVELOVELOVE these skis! (Sorry if that sounds too girly, but I couldn't help it).
post #9 of 22
I have a brand new, never used, pair of P-8s in 160CM which I'd be happy to sell for $400, send a PM if anyone's interested.
post #10 of 22
Thread Starter 
Hi,

My exepriece has been that the skis tend to get a bit squirelly under my feet in the forward binding position, probably due to the big sidecut of the tips and any bit of tip pressure is sufficient to get them to bite. Everyone has different boots and stance, but I definately think the sweet spot on the 8+ is farther back than on the RX8. It really doesn't take a whole lot of effort or concentration to get these skis on or off an edge. It is definately making it easier for me to try to start using the edges effectively well before the fall line. 
post #11 of 22
 I have 18 days on mine so far and I moved the bindings to the forward position a while ago and haven't looked back, made an immediate improvement to me in the ski on short turns.

Still haven't had any real snow or bumps to ski them in (well some small bumps which they did great in) but on everything else they're the best ski I've skied (of course there are too many variables here, as in my skiing is also the best skiing I've ever done and that's because of skill improvement, not the skis.)
post #12 of 22
Thread Starter 

For me, I could sum up the ski as confidence-inspiring. It doesn't get rattled that easily and I am finding I am letting the skis just run and am not so much concerned with keeping the speed in check, as I would on the RX8. It makes it a LOT easier for me to be patient during the transitions on steeper pitches. The best analogy I can make is to an AWD car with a soft suspension and sound-proof interior --  you don't really feel like you are moving as fat as you are and don't have to be too overly concerned with the conditions on the road. 

post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoMan View Post

For me, I could sum up the ski as confidence-inspiring. It doesn't get rattled that easily and I am finding I am letting the skis just run and am not so much concerned with keeping the speed in check, as I would on the RX8. It makes it a LOT easier for me to be patient during the transitions on steeper pitches. The best analogy I can make is to an AWD car with a soft suspension and sound-proof interior --  you don't really feel like you are moving as fat as you are and don't have to be too overly concerned with the conditions on the road. 

second that!
post #14 of 22
Should i get the Progressor 9+ 175 cm or the 8+ 170 cm?

I'm 6' 2" and about 210 lbs. My skill level is a 7 or 8 and I'm a pretty aggressive, fast skier. I'm not sure whether to get the 8 or 9 they are very similar in price only about $20 difference at the place I'm buying from. I'm tempted to go with the longer stiffer ski just because of my size. 

Any input would be appreciated
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbartlow View Post

Should i get the Progressor 9+ 175 cm or the 8+ 170 cm?

I'm 6' 2" and about 210 lbs. My skill level is a 7 or 8 and I'm a pretty aggressive, fast skier. I'm not sure whether to get the 8 or 9 they are very similar in price only about $20 difference at the place I'm buying from. I'm tempted to go with the longer stiffer ski just because of my size. 

Any input would be appreciated

175s. I'm 6'3" and 160, on the 170s. The 9s have the .5mm metal in them to stiffen them up, along with the extra length, which I think you'll probably want at speed and with aggression. The 8 is without the metal, and I think might be a bit too flexible for what you are looking for.
post #16 of 22
 CBARTLOW:

I have skied both, and own the 9+ in 175.  I weigh 185, level 8/9.
 
The 9+ is more stable at high speed.  Not very good in large bumps as you might expect, due to stiffness.  Skis like a race ski.  I skied the 9 back to back with the RC4 RC Worldcup and they skied very similar.  The 9 was better in crud which sold me on it.  Great edge grip, but not very tolerant of traditional technique, as the tail does not allow much sliding.

The 8+ skied similar but gave up some(not much) high speed stability.

Both of these skis are made for ripping groomers.  Even the extra waist width does not make them much more versitile, it seems to make them more stable than a race ski in less than perfectly groomed conditions.

Given your weight you may want to consider the 9 as it has the metal laminates.  Be aware that this ski requires pretty good modern technique.
 
If you have any other questions let me know.
post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauntless View Post

 CBARTLOW:

I have skied both, and own the 9+ in 175.  I weigh 185, level 8/9.
 
The 9+ is more stable at high speed.  Not very good in large bumps as you might expect, due to stiffness.  Skis like a race ski.  I skied the 9 back to back with the RC4 RC Worldcup and they skied very similar.  The 9 was better in crud which sold me on it.  Great edge grip, but not very tolerant of traditional technique, as the tail does not allow much sliding.

The 8+ skied similar but gave up some(not much) high speed stability.

Both of these skis are made for ripping groomers.  Even the extra waist width does not make them much more versitile, it seems to make them more stable than a race ski in less than perfectly groomed conditions.

Given your weight you may want to consider the 9 as it has the metal laminates.  Be aware that this ski requires pretty good modern technique.
 
If you have any other questions let me know.
See, I found the Eights to be more than versatile in powder, especially if you move the Railflex back to the rearmost setting. Great in bumps, too. Granted, I'm a real lanky lightweight guy...

In this situation though, I'd probably be thinking the nines.
post #18 of 22
Curious if anyone had tried their RX 8s at the -1 position on the Railflex bindings?  I've been considering replacing the RX 8 with something a little more stable at speed like the Progressor. But I'm wondering how moving the binding back would affect its stability.

I tried them in the +1 position when I first got them and immediately moved them back to center.
post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by RatherPlayThanWork View Post

Curious if anyone had tried their RX 8s at the -1 position on the Railflex bindings?  I've been considering replacing the RX 8 with something a little more stable at speed like the Progressor. But I'm wondering how moving the binding back would affect its stability.

I tried them in the +1 position when I first got them and immediately moved them back to center.

I ski the 07/08 Race SC - which is basically the RX-8 with a bit stiffer tip.  Recently tried moving the Railflex to +1 and found a huge (positive) difference on the groomers.  I was finding that I really needed positive pressure on the tongue of the boot to engage the tips from the neutral position.  At +1 I feel much more centered and get a more positive engagement from the tips without a need to drive the boot.  I really don't think I would like them set to -1.
post #20 of 22
 I agree with OES.  I had my RX8's in the +1 position.  I skied my Progressors neutral a few times, then moved them forward and felt an immediate improvement.

Double blind comparison tests were done a while ago with binding mount positions and the results were that good skiers almost all preferred the bindings a little ahead of the manufacturers mounting line.

I've even heard it said that they do that on purpose because it makes the ski "safer" for lower level skiers.
post #21 of 22
I ski'd 175 RX 8's in the +1 position....easy to stay on top of them yet remained very stable at speed.

I also owned flat RX8's in 170 so without ability to move railflex can't comment on those as bindings were fixed.

Ski'd SMJ's 165 RX 8's extensively, whilst they were quick and easy with shortswing turns I found them very squirrely at speed......

The 175 with railflex at +1 was by far the best of the bunch.....I would expect the same with the progr 8 a ski I considered until dawg suggested the i supershape.

I have been on OES RC's those are outstanding too....I would like to try those in the +1 position....maybe tomorrow?
post #22 of 22
 I've had a lot of success with them (Progressor 8) in the neutral setting; moved them up once and found them really quick for bumps/trees. For all mountain/all conditions, though, I much prefer neutral. And when it gets deep in the East, the rear most. Fun to ride the tail a little bit every once in a while...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Member Gear Reviews