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Edge Wedge Hop Turns

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

I was wondering if anybody knew a place where I could find a video of edge wedge hop turns? They are also known as wedge hop turns or sequential converging hop turns. Just need a link.

 

Thanks a lot

 

post #2 of 19
In Central Division of PSIA, these used to be called "wedge swing hops".    They were a LIII exam maneuver in the 1980s.

I've never seen a video of the movement.   They're like a Spiess turn with the skis in a wedge position.
post #3 of 19

It is still a L3 exam task here in the East! Jeb and Matt Boyd form Arc2Arc may be able to help you!

 

T

post #4 of 19

Sounds awful, my thighs hurt just thinking about it.  Is this something that certain divisions think is a useful skiing or teaching tool?

post #5 of 19

It's not something you'd generally teach, it's an instructor agility drill intended to show that the skier is centered and able to make subtle unweighting movements with the lower body while maintaining a quiet torso.

post #6 of 19

this is actually a really useful movement for east coast woods.  Let you change direction in midair when there is only room for one ski width on the take off and landing.

 

It actually doesnt hurt at all, and for me feel nearly effortless.

post #7 of 19

Why not work with a hop pedal turn and avoid the wedge?  This seems better to me.  One of the tele gurus I work with loves the spiess turn as an exercise like Kneale outlined above.  I can do it pretty well, but its not a movement I ever use in free skiing.  If I was to need it, it's there, but would not be initiated from a wedge.  Wedges hurt.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

this is actually a really useful movement for east coast woods.  Let you change direction in midair when there is only room for one ski width on the take off and landing.

 

It actually doesnt hurt at all, and for me feel nearly effortless.

post #8 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post

Why not work with a hop pedal turn and avoid the wedge?  This seems better to me.  One of the tele gurus I work with loves the spiess turn as an exercise like Kneale outlined above.  I can do it pretty well, but its not a movement I ever use in free skiing.  If I was to need it, it's there, but would not be initiated from a wedge.  Wedges hurt.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

this is actually a really useful movement for east coast woods.  Let you change direction in midair when there is only room for one ski width on the take off and landing.

 

It actually doesnt hurt at all, and for me feel nearly effortless.


 


your never in a wedge on the ground only in midair.

post #9 of 19

Doing this as a wedge drill forces you to use your ankles more, as well as to use a bit more forced counter, if you're going to keep a quiet upper torso which the drill also requires.  Why those are good things in and of themselves is debatable, particularly the counter.  Basically if you created a "footsie" drill text box in a PowerPoint, this one would be in it. 

 

BWPA is right that a similar move can work in tight spots.  But, as a drill, I'm not real sure when this one would do anything that couldn't be accomplished through other means. 

post #10 of 19

So without a video does anyone care to paint a verbal picture of the maneuver? Maybe that would help the OP learn more about the maneuver.

post #11 of 19

From the PSIA-E exam guide:

 

Sequential converging hop turns: The skier hops from outside ski to outside ski. These are speed controlling,
fall line oriented, short turns.


What To Look For: The skier should maintain timing, coordination and balance through a series of turns. The skier can
display a controlled landing that’s in balance and on the inside edge of the outside ski. The skier can land on and
jump off the outside ski in continuous motion rather than stalling or double pumping.
The skis are turned across the fall line enough to maintain speed control. Pole use and timing supports
continuous motion and balance.

 

Like hop turns but the skis leave the snow sequentially not simultaneously.
 

post #12 of 19

The Video Demo is in the PSIA-E standards guide 2010 - DVD from the office in Albany

post #13 of 19

This move came up today at the end of level 2 childrens training.  The clinician mentioned doing it "back in the day".  He said they played around with hopping and pressuring the edge so strongly that they could start from a stop and move backwards up the hill through a set of these on a moderated groomer.  He said doing these made him a much more powerful and confident mogul skier.

post #14 of 19

As mentioned previously, wedge hops , were a  prelude in the old days to converging step turns, where the top half of the turn is eliminated.

 

I don't  know if you could actual go up hill in a wedge hop, because the tip of the ski is somewhat down the fall line, but hop turns( or elephant hops)  where the ski is perpendicular to the  fall line it does  happen. In my youth many moons ago, I was able to do it.

 

On fairly steep groomed black  slope, I was able  to stay in place( with hop turns) and on blue squares I could hop up the hill  - but that was before I got old and fat

 

I can't think of better exercise to master  than hop turns that would provide better agility in the moguls

post #15 of 19

I didn't bring it up and I didn't see it.  That guy is over 60 and an incredible skier.  If he says he did it I believe him.  

post #16 of 19

I seen those wedge hop drills, when done "properly" you can actually back up a groomed blue run. Edge marks are clearly defined in the snow with little to no slippage. The DCL that was demoing various exercises made it look very easy - I can't do them period, He said I probably couldn't dance well either. There were several level 3's attending that clinic that probably didn't dance  too  well either.

post #17 of 19

Kneale, Didn't see your posts before I posted, You probably know the DCL I saw demo this exercise, Initials are E.S. and home ski area is middle eastern MI. I consider  Ed one of the most perfected skiers I've met.

post #18 of 19

I know a guy named Ed S. who has a couple of brothers, all of them very athletic skiers.  I've never seen any of them back up a hill doing wedge swing hops.  I've seen young Austrians do Spiess turns back up a hill.

post #19 of 19
It's a very athletic exercise that develops all sorts of skills, from independent leg action to one-footed balance to feel for edgesets to pole plants and timing. It's particularly useful as part of a progression to develop the classic "float-sting" short-radius slalom turn, characterized by very brief, clean edgesets--"quick on and off the edges." Phil and Steve Mahre (and surely all of their competitors as well) used it routinely in their training regimes.

Wanna' make it even more challenging? Try a sequence of wedge hops from inside edge to inside edge, to simultaneous parallel "spiess" hops from two edges to two edges, to "Charleston hops" from outside edge to outside edge (crossing the feet beneath the body while in the air to land on and leap from the "inside" foot)--all without breaking the rhythm. This is one of those "stupid instructor tricks" that skilled and athletic skiers can do, and that builds tremendous versatility and skill in anyone who practices it. It's been a fixture in Trainer and Examiner-level selections for many years in PSIA-Rocky Mountain.

Best regards,
Bob
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