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Do you do any warmup before you ski? If so, what do you do? - Page 2

post #31 of 63
1/4/10 at 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by evaino View Post

-
 But I would suggest that even for those people that the diagonal leg swing and the lateral squat with heel and toe touches would be worthwhile exercises to help you feel the full range of your hip internal and external rotation as they are so crucial in turning on skis.


Elsbeth


 

Thats usually what I'll do with a few squats,but thats about it.
I'm sure .as you say ,everyone would benifit from a short dynamic warm up.
I know  i should do more. 
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post #32 of 63
1/4/10 at 8:42pm
Nice post. 

Although I'm not big on stretching, I found all this interesting.  My wife teaches basic martial arts to children.  She always warms them up with music and dancing moves.  Then she has them do some stretching.  Then they do the katas.  ( kicking, and striking )   

I know there are certain ways she won't work them, because they can cause people to hurt themselves!  

She said herself that stretching was "out" now in martial arts, but she still has them do a little because she is "old school".
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post #33 of 63
1/5/10 at 5:38am
Even though I do see a need for a warm up and joint mobility, I would be nervous that someone from TGR would take a picture and post it in the gaper section.
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post #34 of 63
1/5/10 at 6:10am
I can think of some Swiss racers in particular I'd love to see warming up...

pictures of me warming up might fall under the TMI heading, by contrast.

Maybe designated warm-up viewshed zones?
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post #35 of 63
1/5/10 at 7:03am
Something gets lost when I do it vs when a team of racers do a group warm up.

If you are the only one, then you look like an ass.  I am very image conscious
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post #36 of 63
1/5/10 at 7:53am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post

Something gets lost when I do it vs when a team of racers do a group warm up.

If you are the only one, then you look like an ass.  I am very image conscious

Conversely, if you are the only one, you look like a leader.  Okay, that may be a stretch. :)

I have started doing this warmup when I ski, and the first time, I felt a bit self-conscious, I will admit.  Particularly since the way our hill is setup, the instructors tend to click in right next to the lift.  So there I am next to the lift line doing my warmup.  And yes, I am getting looks.  

But three things occurred to me that put me at ease:  
- every person in that line up who has tight muscles, sore backs, knees or necks (which is probably at least 70% of the over 30 crowd) is probably thinking they should be doing the same and is looking to see what I'm doing vs thinking I'm "flapping around like an idiot".  Honestly, I could see it in the expressions that most people were curious as opposed to critical.  
- about 5 years ago I started doing dynamic warmups before indoor ultimate games, and I was the only one.  Ultimate players were like skiers in that regard - no or minimal warmup before playing - but lots of hamstring strains, groin strains, shin splints, knee injuries...Fast forward 5 years and about half the players do that same warmup, or a close version of it.  
- and the one that trumps all for me: I will be tight and sore later that night or the next day if I don't warm-up. I don't want to be tight and sore.  

Just my perspective.  But I do realize that it's intimidating to be the only one doing something.  But if you think it makes sense for you, then you should do it.   

Elsbeth
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post #37 of 63
1/5/10 at 8:32am
Actually I don't mind looking like an ass.  And if you look like you know what you are doing others my want to get some of what you have.  When a racer does it - say that kicking drill you show in the vid, then it makes sense.  I have seen them doing that specific movement and they don't come across as gapers.

I think that for me, I would prefer to pick and choose - concentrate on specific areas that are problematic, like my back and hips.  I like to go into a snug racing tuck before I get going.  That way my body has more or less adjusted to being in that position.  If I don't, doing it while skiing is rough, or if I absorb a big bump and squash down my age suddenly becomes an issue!

I have to be careful of ballistic rotational movements to loosen my back, even though it seems like the right thing to do.  So, more mobility for my back and torso in general might help.
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post #38 of 63
1/5/10 at 9:52am
yes, but like many others, I like to think I am getting my heart rate up a bit and the blood flowing into "parts". I'm about 5 minutes from the gondi so that walk is a good kick off, I try to get on a stepper/glider for about 10 minutes prior to heading out. It seems to knock the webs off. Getting blood flowing after sleeping all night does make a difference- A few yoga poses seems to help  Cat-cow, downward dog!  Woof..... of course, copius consumption of caffiene is also recommended.

That said, the video is good and seems to accomplish getting the heart rate up, increased blood flow and a good mental stoke....

Good job!
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post #39 of 63
1/5/10 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by evaino View Post


Quote:

- every person in that line ... is probably thinking they should be doing the same and is looking to see what I'm doing vs thinking I'm "flapping around like an idiot".   I will be tight and sore later that night or the next day if I don't warm-up. I don't want to be tight and sore.  

 



Actually, most of us think you are flapping around like an idiot. However, if you can instill enough threats and guilt  (If I'm not a good person and do the things I'm supposed to do I'll be punished) you might get some people to click on your links and pay money to the business you are promoting here.  Guilt and threats always worked well for the Catholic church
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post #40 of 63
1/5/10 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post

Something gets lost when I do it vs when a team of racers do a group warm up.

If you are the only one, then you look like an ass.  I am very insecure
 


  Fixed it!  You may feel like an ass, but you don't look like one. Most are probably thinking they should be doing the same!  Just do it and F' em! :)  Even if anyone else thinks it's strange, who cares what they think of it, it's not about you personally (not that that even matters!)
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post #41 of 63
1/5/10 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post

...When a racer does it - say that kicking drill you show in the vid, then it makes sense....
 
Swiss women's team doing it -- then it makes complete and total sense.  Crystal.

Or for the fairer sex on here, Swiss men's team for that matter. 

Seriously, alpine skiing's done in public, so the fashion element is unavoidable, but the coolest fashion really is doing something functional.
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post #42 of 63
1/5/10 at 1:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post





..., it's not about you personally (not that that even matters!)

Really
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post #43 of 63
1/5/10 at 1:40pm
Well, it is all about you, my bad!
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post #44 of 63
1/6/10 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by evaino View Post

Lots of great replies.  Thanks.

I need to give the 7th inning stretch suggestion some further thought - my initial thought is that popping your skis off at the top of the hill and doing a few jumps or squats would be good - as they have the biggest bang in terms of activation - although it wouldn't necessarily be a long term effect!  So maybe best done as a way to squeeze one more run out as opposed to several.  I'll give this thought for sure.   
...
Elsbeth
 

BTW, I hope my comment wasn't taken negatively. I'm ALL for stretching, activation, warmup, visualization and anything else which can help my olde bag of bones be prepped and functioning at the best level possible.
I was suggesting it might be more effective to start the prep process long before standing at the bottom of the lift. But if that's where one ends up, a decent warmup beats none at all.

For me, that 1st ride up the chair, in the cold, really knocks me back a degree from the prep done before that. So I try to do some light warmup exercises when I get off the lift - step out of the bindings and do a few of the things you show (plus my own particular 'focus').
The 1st run is always about bringing muscle 'memory' alive - my 'school' turns, getting snow feel back, assessing technique areas which might seem problematic that morning (not addressing these, in the past, have always led to those days when I just don;t feel 'on it'); and making clean, efficient turns at as slow as possible speeds, all the way back up the fall-line as far as possible. If I'm with a group, I always lag on that 1st run, but by the time the 2nd and 3rd runs happen, I feel much more 'on'.

Anyway, if in your 'video' you can get the message across that 'prep' done earlier and more comprehensively is always a preferred thing, this idea might get thru to a few who really understand the message.
Edited by moreoutdoor - 1/6/10 at 10:15am
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post #45 of 63
1/7/10 at 2:27pm
Years ago at a coaches camp, a few of us at the beginning of the day were doing stretches before we caught the first chair. The guy who was the head of the Canadian Ski Coaches Federation, at the time, gave us crap (sort of) and told us never to stretch at the beginning of the day because of the chance of causing injury.  He said the best way to warm up and get all the muscles firing was to take a run down an intermediate trail and crank off a long series of dynamic short radius turns.  By the time you get to the bottom everything is firing and warmed up.  If you want to stretch after that, go ahead, but it's value is debatable.  Nowadays I just head straight up the chair.
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post #46 of 63
1/7/10 at 3:05pm
What he said x2! 
Never stretch a cold muscle.  You may not feel it, but you can cause micro-tears that could later lead to a more serious injury.
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post #47 of 63
1/7/10 at 4:27pm
Thread Starter 
More great comments!  

Moreoutdoor -

Doing warmup at the bottom or top of a lift I think could easily fall under personal preference.  I'm not sure there's a huge difference physiologically having the lift up in between, but I may be proven wrong there.  I've tried both and haven't found much difference.  Still, if I lived in a slightly warmer climate, I'd probably go do the prep at the top of the hill.  But it's really cold here, so I don't want to hang out in the wind at the top for 6 minutes! 

exracer and simplemind - 

Regarding not stretching cold - that was a fairly universally accepted concept many years ago, but now there is dispute about that.  There are many top strength coaches now that have their athletes do a static stretch before they do their dynamic warmup. Their argument is that if you stretch warm, the increased muscle and fascia length goes away as soon as the body cools. Personally I'm still on the fence about when is best to do static stretching.  Although someone did point out to me that you don't have any cold muscles unless you are dead. An interesting argument!

Doing a dynamic warm-up before sports has become an almost universally accepted practice though among strength coaches and competitive athletes. But whether they start with the dynamic stretching and activations; do a light jog or bike first (or in this case an easy ski); static stretch first; foam roll first then static stretch then activation then dynamic stretch...there are good arguments for all of those options.
 
Elsbeth
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post #48 of 63
1/13/10 at 10:35am
My previous post got cut off. I think I got sidetracked before I saved or something.

I wanted to say that I like to warmup students and myself with "sloppy turns" - not exercises, but just ski sloppy. Let the skis slide, let the shoulders throw. I find it loosens me up "psychologically" as much as anything.

For students, it's like a free pass. If you start people out with exercises or "let me see how you ski" very often they ski up sheepishly and say "I usually ski a lot better than this." So I start them out asking them to ski sloppy, "wrong" and consciously make mistakes. It seems to put them at ease because not only do they usually ski better than that, they *know* they'll ski better than that in the next 15 seconds.

Otherwise, last I checked, World Cup XC racers warm up with about 25 minutes of progressively faster skiing, ending with 10 minutes at race pace. This because ???? (the winningest racer of the last couple decades) said that the competition had gotten so tough that you couldn't afford to "warm up" during the race. So these guys actually go out and ski hard immediately before skiing the 50K.
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post #49 of 63
1/20/10 at 6:20am
Thread Starter 
Just uploaded the final version of the video with audio.  In the end I stuck with the same moves as in the first version.  I did take a video of some squats however my boots are way too stiff, so they looked terrible!  The result is no squats in the video and I am now shopping for new boots. :)  (Paul Jones - I appreciate and agree with the idea of the squats though.)

Thanks to all who provided replies in this thread - it was really great for me to get a feel for what people do or do not do, and why.  



Elsbeth
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post #50 of 63
1/20/10 at 6:27am
I simply find a long easy run and slowly ski that for a first run...
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post #51 of 63
1/20/10 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by evaino View Post

Newfydog - good on ya for having a long and healthy ski career without warmups.  I would suggest that you are the anomaly - like the 90 year old pack a day smoker...

Guess I'm gonna stop stretching cause I see allot of 90 year olds driving an old pick-up with a pack of Lucky Strikes on the dash.
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post #52 of 63
1/20/10 at 5:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag View Post




Guess I'm gonna stop stretching cause I see allot of 90 year olds driving an old pick-up with a pack of Lucky Strikes on the dash.
 

Maybe they just look 90. :)
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post #53 of 63
1/20/10 at 6:07pm
I warm up; here's my warm-up routine.
First I carry my gear from the car to the lodge, where I lock up my skis on the rack and carry my boot bag inside.  Then I stretch down and change from my street boots into my skis boots (Getting on my CrossMax boots is a lot less of a warm-up than getting on the old Koflach Comp 911s).  then I carry my skis and poles from the rack to the clean snow, click in and skate to the lift (skating with the WC SCs is a lot less exercise than skating with the old SGs).  Finally I ski a run on a beginner green or blue run.    Then I'm good to go.
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post #54 of 63
1/20/10 at 6:13pm
Great job Elsbeth.

I have been thinking about this topic.  A couple of things that help me are head and neck mobility.  Simple side to side and chin to chest plus shoulder low, chin high.  Not sure what any are called, but also one palm up and one palm down - head turned.

The warm-up has become more important in the last year or so.  I do full squats with my skis on to mobilize my hips.  I also do overhead squats.  When I am skiing, it's right into a tuck and that help prove to myself that I can still get there.

I am comfortable with the fact that I need to do these and the need to take a warm-up run.  It is understandable that many feel that they don't.  It works for me.

My program is in a development stage.  I can't do that much before it's time to rip, but I like working on this element of my skiing. 
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post #55 of 63
1/20/10 at 7:17pm
I'm with Epic and Newfy. By the time I cook breakfast, find everyone's "lost" stuff, pace around waiting for everyone to get ready, climb the stairs a dozen times, ski down the road to the lift area, walk to and from the lift window and click back in I'm sweating which I consider "warmed up". Then we might stretch once or twice in each direction and take a nice blue "warm up" run to start the day. I do usually stretch a little at the end of the day to help fight off the stiffness.
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post #56 of 63
1/21/10 at 12:17am

I like stretching, but I usually finish at 8 and don't begin skiing until after 9. I've always had doubts on its real usefullness. On those mornings when I skip it, I can't really tell the difference.

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post #57 of 63
2/2/10 at 7:51pm
As you probably know, there's continuing debate over the value of pre-activity stretching, especially when the joints and muscles haven't been properly warmed up by a couple of minutes of light aerobic work to break a sweat.

Without going into that, I'll share with you some advice that recently helped me through a couple of months of on-hill training to take and pass the NSP skiing and tobogganing exam.

On one's first run on a gentle intermediate slope, you ski it standing erect and tall, relying on your skeletal structure for support and controlling your turns with subtle weight shifts.

On the second run you do the opposite:  you ski the same run in a wide crouched stance, relying on your muscles alone to support you and manage your turns.

From there, you're good to go.
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post #58 of 63
2/2/10 at 10:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CycleBob View Post

As you probably know, there's continuing debate over the value of pre-activity stretching, especially when the joints and muscles haven't been properly warmed up by a couple of minutes of light aerobic work to break a sweat.

Without going into that, I'll share with you some advice that recently helped me through a couple of months of on-hill training to take and pass the NSP skiing and tobogganing exam.

On one's first run on a gentle intermediate slope, you ski it standing erect and tall, relying on your skeletal structure for support and controlling your turns with subtle weight shifts.

On the second run you do the opposite:  you ski the same run in a wide crouched stance, relying on your muscles alone to support you and manage your turns.

From there, you're good to go.




 


Wow! Great.  I just hope no one needs a functional patroller until you are done doing your two runs of freak skiing.

Newf,
NSP, CSPS patroller.
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post #59 of 63
2/9/10 at 6:03am
Outstanding vid! Thanks
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post #60 of 63
2/9/10 at 7:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CycleBob View Post

As you probably know, there's continuing debate over the value of pre-activity stretching, especially when the joints and muscles haven't been properly warmed up by a couple of minutes of light aerobic work to break a sweat.

 
These drills hardly fit the definition of stretching.  The negative studies are all about serious stretching.  As I mentioned earlier, joint mobility  should not be confused with stretching.  It's more in the category of limbering.  Some people benefit from warm-up and the stimulation of joints.

When squatting in the gym, you don't just go to your max weight, you build up.  It's not stretching per se, but it is a form of warm-up.  For me, that warm-up includes the joints that are involved - the hips are one example.  I gotta do it or risk injury.  I suppose some people don't need to do that.

When I was a youngster, there was no though of a warm-up.  Things are different now.
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