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Park and ride?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
Looking for progressions to fix the park and ride syndrome.

Progressions and drills.

Given so far, 4 tuck turns, 4 regular turns.

line down the fall line and pole plant on the line.

Retraction turns
post #2 of 11

I just was composing a new post on why do ski instrutors demonstrate "Park and ride" while celebrating the dynamic abbandon and good basics of the ski racer. I threw it out feeling it was too difficult to pose. Now you have done it from a different angle.

We must walk before we can run, but when we "try to do it right" we lock ourselves in a static mode. It was the one feature I noted of your video posts. I would do it to if the camera were on me.

Free the heel and the mind will follow? No! Free the mind and the whole self will follow!

Celebrate chaos!

post #3 of 11
Make your turns spiral shaped instead of half circles.
post #4 of 11
When you are getting to the end of your moving(flex/extend), start your next turn. Think of walking upstairs. No klunking!!!
post #5 of 11
Leapers with a smooooth landing. The immediately into another one. Start out just doing leapers, changing edges in the air. Then ask the student to make the landing as smooth as possible. Then lengthen the extension move to take up half the duration of the turn. The student will stop getting air, but that's the intent. It works great if you have kids or generally athletic students, and use small bumps to leap off of, so that you can get more air time.

The problem of park-and-ride is with the speed at which the skier flexes and extends. They flex too quickly for the turn size, and end up bottoming out and parked. I've had a lot of luck just telling people that 2 things should always be happening. You should always be turning (unless the intent is to straight traverse), and you should always be flexing or extending. The duration of the turn and the flex/extend moves need to be the same.
post #6 of 11
Dchan, I hope this isn't in response to my post in your last video thread...

In my mind, theres absolutely nothing wrong with park and ride turns. I love doing them, and due to laziness, its probably 95% of what I do when I'm on groomed snow. They're fun, effortless, and you get some great sensations. My point was, its really hard to take a park and ride turn and shrink it down into a short radius turn.

To me, the main difference between park and ride turns and my shorter "all-mountain" turns is the amount of setup and inner leg manipulation. For shorter turns, I have to unweight my upcoming inside ski, guide/manipulate it a little bit, and aggressively tip it toward its little toe edge. These turns are pretty carved, but there can be smearing through the second half of the turn.

In a PnR turn, you can balance your weight on both skis and just roll them from edge to edge to make nice big sweeping turns. The amount of carving is very high, you produce very rail like turns. Size depends on the sidecut radius of the skis and the amount of angulation you can add.

With short slalom skis, you can make some pretty tight radius turns with the same level of carving. These are what slalom and GS racers do. I don't like calling them park and ride because they're actively moving their c.o.m. inside throughout the turn and using guiding movements. These are what psia instructors are all obsessed with now.

For my skiing, I don't feel like these tight slalom turns are appropriate for steep, bumpy, or challenging terrain. You really have to be on your game in order to keep your speed "in check" since all the speed control depends on turn radius. For some reason though, instructors (a lot of them on this site) seem to be pushing this for the majority of the skiing public. I think its way beyond what most recreational skiers will ever hope to do.
post #7 of 11
Dchan- Due med radius turns but at the transition connect it with 2 short radius turns.

due short turns but on a long turn path

synchro ski

ski with a partner and have your partner tell you to hop (anytime)

shuffle turns/1000 steps turns/hop turns


Just be committed to control your action meter out your flex/extend do it slow do it fast but always have it moving.
post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 

Yes it's partly in response to your post but not in the way you might think.

My skiing used to be much more static than it is now. A lot has to do again with perception and reality. When I am free skiing I feel like everything good. I feel like I'm moving extending etc. Especially in the bumps. But of course what I feel and what I'm doing are often 2 different things. Put me or almost anyone in front of the camera and things change. I see it in my friends, other video analysis, etc. The best indicator for where we are is probably freeskiing with an instructor or if you want video, having someone video while you are not aware or just out having fun instead of trying to "perform" for the camera.

As an instructor, I also see this type of skiing in my students. Much more tense, and truely static skiing. When I'm doing demos, I'm very consious of my extending/retracting breathing in/out, but I'm not dealing with pressure build up as much or watching out for trees, skiers I'm going by at a fairly high rate of speed. We are usually on very flat easy slopes where speed is not an issue, and we are not trying to "Carve a hard arc" but rather get the motions right.

So your P&R question just triggered for me a way to get more "tricks for my teaching bag" as well as my skiing and helps me understand the mechanics of what is going on and how to improve my teaching skill, MA skills and my skiing/demo skills.

Keep them coming. I have been playing these out in my mind and trying to understand what the outcome would be so I may be asking more questions or clarification as I go along.
post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
I think I understand most of the exercises, What does Syncro skiing do other than force you to move and react more quickly without thinking about line or is that the goal?

Also when you suggest Syncro skiing are we talking about matching timing on pole plants or cat/mouse type exercise where one person tries to ski in the leader's track right on their tail..

or side by side where we try to "match" the other persons turns (nested tracks)
post #10 of 11
I really like the "adjusted" syncro skiing where one skier sets a consistent pace and the other makes same-time pole plants/turns, but does so in a manner to allow for gradually passing the leader and then gradually allowing the leader to pass them.

We used to start one behind the other, pass on one side, cross to the other side, let the leader pass and then get back into line. When you can do this while matching turn timing and size in short turns, start working on medium turns.

Note that these are not railroad-track carved turns. You'd have to match at least ski model/age/size and skier weight to syncro carved turns.
post #11 of 11
Try, traversing the slope and retracting(pulling back)your uphill ski. Then do them same thing but combine two turns together, retracting the uphill ski on each turn. Once you have the feeling for it, try a whole run. If you notice, you can't retract the uphill ski properly and "sit in the back seat"(park and ride)at the same time. When done properly (retracting the uphill ski), it gets your ankles flexed, positions your hips up and forward through the turn, and allows you to be ready for the next turn sooner.
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