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Mogul skiing - Page 9

post #241 of 387

 

Did someone say Mary Jane on a beautiful day...


4254649837_8e5c3a65ef_z.jpg?zz=1

 

Wow is right!  Look at those piles of pow on the tops.
 

post #242 of 387

Would love to blow those moguls to pieces by skiing over the biggest part opposite of the rut right on to the top of the soft snow.

 

Today the best skiers get there skis engaged and carving earlier and earlier in the turn. Carving more in the fall line because at the point where the ski is in the fall line, the skier is at the steepest point of the run using gravity to the utmost. This is where the skier can produce more speed.

 

3 things why this works.

 

1 2 3 High edge angles, early pressure on the outside ski, and putting the pressure on the fore body of the ski.

 

How to do this;

It all starts at the completion of the previous turn, the skiers upper body takes a direct line down the fall line in comparison to where the path of the skis take as the skis finish the arc. This gives the skier am lot of incline and edge angle in the initiation of the next turn without pushing  the skis to the side. The skier puts his downhill  knee inward to apply pressure to the fore body of the ski to help with increased edge angle, by flexing the skiers ankle and pressing his shin into the front of the boot. At this point the skier moves the pressure on the skis from the tip to the tail to release the skis from the carve, arc or turn. The skier does this by straightening out of the ankles so there is no longer pushes on the fronts of the boots, keeping the skiers arms and torso forward in a good balanced, athletic body position from where the skier can move forward in to the next turn.

 

Another way to think about this is as if you are rocking in a rocking chair. Start the turn on the front of the ski and rock to the tail to finish.

 

This is just good basic skiing that is what SVMM is all about bring this turn into the moguls.

 

Lets just zipper line it is the best way to ski bumps. Forget the fundamentals of basic skiing and throw the skier right into the zipper on low angle runs.

 

The zipper liner's answer is I'm done. Because I have no technical advise on how to do it rather than just do it. Nike told me to.

post #243 of 387

Lars by the way the WC bump skiing has nothing to do with how good the skier turns. It has  not been about skiing IMO since the late 80's when jumps were introduced. That is why you should try what we preach then come back later this winter with some insight.

 

Do yourself a favor and grow as a skier. Try racing for a change get out of the bumps and ski. Like we do. Town Series 2010.

 

DVC00092.JPG

post #244 of 387
Quote:
   

Did someone say Mary Jane on a beautiful day...


4254649837_8e5c3a65ef_z.jpg?zz=1
 

Outhouse ?
 



One of the Hauls.

post #245 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailbender View Post

 

Quote:
crgildart wrote:
 
OK, I'm way up top at about 1:20.  It felt pretty smooth at the top and just holding things together through the chatter marks at the bottom as I finish up at 1:30redface.gif

 

CR, I've actually watched your mogul section a few times.  I think the finish of your description says it best, "holding things together". 

 

When skiing the zipperline, the skier really is at the mercy of the run as the skier ends up simply trying to make it to the next rut and then the next rut...

 

The best single suggestion I could give you would be to start your mogul run slower than usual and instead of looking down the zipperline, look at the loose snow next to the scraped rut and concentrate on making a turn or 2 on the smooth white space.  Don't look at the zipperline and don't look for the top, just focus on the softest snow you can find and ski from one loose snow pile to the next and keep it going.  Before you know it, you'll find yourself at the bottom wishing it were longer.  This would be skiing over the moguls instead of around them and would be very easy on a run with a similar pitch and length as the one in the video.


Ya, I probably should have just skied the bottom totally ignoring those little ruts like they weren't even there.  I'm happy with how the very top felt where there were actually a few bumps.  Too bad it isn't really visible on the video.  Very difficult to see me, plus there is also someone else skiing/putzing sloppy wide turns down the center left side of the picture at 1:20 while I'm ripping up the very very top portion (you can barely see me at all at that point).

post #246 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post

Lars by the way the WC bump skiing has nothing to do with how good the skier turns. It has  not been about skiing IMO since the late 80's when jumps were introduced. That is why you should try what we preach then come back later this winter with some insight.

 

Do yourself a favor and grow as a skier. Try racing for a change get out of the bumps and ski. Like we do. Town Series 2010.

 

 

I remember watching a bump skier (USSA National Amateur (junior?) Freestyle Champ at the time) take a run in our little end of the year party GS race with the Race Team Coaches, NASTAR Pacesetters, and Ski School Directors.  Everyone stood in amazement when he posted the best timeeek.gificon14.gif
 

post #247 of 387

This photo almost redeems this thread.

Those aren't bumps, they're thumpfs! That's what they sound like when you nail the tops and the powder goes flying.

 

4254649837_8e5c3a65ef_z.jpg?zz=1

post #248 of 387



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post

Lars by the way the WC bump skiing has nothing to do with how good the skier turns. It has  not been about skiing IMO since the late 80's when jumps were introduced. That is why you should try what we preach then come back later this winter with some insight.

 

Do yourself a favor and grow as a skier. Try racing for a change get out of the bumps and ski. Like we do. Town Series 2010.

 

 

I remember watching a bump skier (USSA National Amateur (junior?) Freestyle Champ at the time) take a run in our little end of the year party GS race with the Race Team Coaches, NASTAR Pacesetters, and Ski School Directors.  Everyone stood in amazement when he posted the best timeeek.gificon14.gif
 

I have seen good bump skiers in a water injected WC GS course, and I stood in amazement how poorly some of them skied. Point is that it is not possible to generalize. Some of the bumpers have been racers before etc.

 

post #249 of 387
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post

Lars by the way the WC bump skiing has nothing to do with how good the skier turns. It has  not been about skiing IMO since the late 80's when jumps were introduced. That is why you should try what we preach then come back later this winter with some insight.

 

Do yourself a favor and grow as a skier. Try racing for a change get out of the bumps and ski. Like we do. Town Series 2010.

 

DVC00092.JPG



Done my share of racing in my day cvj and wanted to get back into it last year. Didn't have the time and then a neck injury kept me from doing it altogether.

 

The most fun I've had racing was a Monday night beer league at the Valley some years back. Glen Plake showed up one night to make a few runs with us. Beat everyone hands down. Then we took him over to the Chute for  some moguls and he beat us up again. Man that guy was so smooth. Me and a few others ended up closing down one of the local bars with him. The Depot, it was. He and the owner Moose are good friends.

 

Those were the days huh?

 

Post 242 is a good one BTW. Good info Joe.

 

I don't ski bumps all day anymore and I don't hammer the zipperline all the time. Don't know if I said that before so I don't want any of you to be thinking I do. In fact, I probably use the technical line more so than not, hate that word technical line. Cause I think any line is technical if you want to consider that.

 

As far as that picture of Outhouse goes, sitting back here in the East where we have maybe 2" of snow on the ground, could only leave every skiing male who's been there a "Woody"

 

Just so that "Whumf" sound you hear is from your skis blasting the powder, and not the wind leaving your lungs from a chestpoundergogglesmasher.

 

 

Question for you Joey, do you change your tactics in unevenly spaced bumps with a dual falline?

 

If so, what are they?

post #250 of 387
Thread Starter 

Oh ya, after 54 years of skiing, I don't think I can "Grow" as a skier anymore.

 

Nor do I care to as I'm happy where I'm at.

 

My goal is to stay healthy, not grow.

post #251 of 387



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

This photo almost redeems this thread.

Those aren't bumps, they're thumpfs! That's what they sound like when you nail the tops and the powder goes flying.

 

4254649837_8e5c3a65ef_z.jpg?zz=1

 

 

Some more beautiful day Jane pics:
 

 4390434401_8e994a02cc_z.jpg?zz=1

 

4390434273_c5ea6f2828_z.jpg?zz=1

post #252 of 387

boy oh boy..... this thread is getting out of hand, didn't i already claim to be the best bump skier here?

just look at those bumps on mary jane..... the best in the world other than eastern powder packed bumps...... hahahaha

cant we all just get along, everyones a great bump skier when they're typing anonymously. 

post #253 of 387

 

Quote:
Tog wrote:
 

This photo almost redeems this thread.

Those aren't bumps, they're thumpfs! That's what they sound like when you nail the tops and the powder goes flying.

 

I like that one, I call it "boofing".  Thumpfs works for sure.

post #254 of 387

Those pillows will certainly let you know if the forward pressure on your Markers is set correctly, or noteek.gif

post #255 of 387

 

Quote:
crgildart wrote:
 
Ya, I probably should have just skied the bottom totally ignoring those little ruts like they weren't even there.  I'm happy with how the very top felt where there were actually a few bumps.  Too bad it isn't really visible on the video.  Very difficult to see me, plus there is also someone else skiing/putzing sloppy wide turns down the center left side of the picture at 1:20 while I'm ripping up the very very top portion (you can barely see me at all at that point).

 

I did see you up top and agree you were doing quite well.  I'll stick with my suggestion though, if you were to start slower and focus on turning on the loose snow, it would get you pressuring your shovels early in the section.  In a few bumps, you would probably not be able to hold the technical line and guess where you would end up?  You would get naturally get sucked down to the zipperline, being comfortable there, you could continue down it.  Since you would have been turning on your shovels just prior, you may find yourself more forward than usual when you enter the zipperline, a more powerful/responsive stance which will be advantageous to deflecting down the rest of the run.

 

If you want to improve your natural terrain skiing and crud skiing, it would help to start skiing over the top of more moguls and through more piles, instead of around them most of the time.  It wouldn't be long before you would start to experience the advantages we are talking about.  It's like I said, worst case scenario is that you get pulled back into the zipperline. 

post #256 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailbender View Post

 

If you want to improve your natural terrain skiing and crud skiing, it would help to start skiing over the top of more moguls and through more piles, instead of around them most of the time.  It wouldn't be long before you would start to experience the advantages we are talking about.  It's like I said, worst case scenario is that you get pulled back into the zipperline. 

I often do ski more over the tops when they are soft and crud covered, especially if I'm on a bigger ski.  It's really nothing new at all to me.  Like Lars, I've been doing it many many years and have spent hours and hours skiing them different ways depending on the mood I'm in and how tired I might be.  Going over them and turning down the backsides is definitely easier and less work than ripping the zipper all the time. 
 

post #257 of 387


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post

Lars by the way the WC bump skiing has nothing to do with how good the skier turns. It has  not been about skiing IMO since the late 80's when jumps were introduced. That is why you should try what we preach then come back later this winter with some insight.

 

Do yourself a favor and grow as a skier. Try racing for a change get out of the bumps and ski. Like we do. Town Series 2010.

 

DVC00092.JPG



Done my share of racing in my day cvj and wanted to get back into it last year. Didn't have the time and then a neck injury kept me from doing it altogether.

 

The most fun I've had racing was a Monday night beer league at the Valley some years back. Glen Plake showed up one night to make a few runs with us. Beat everyone hands down. Then we took him over to the Chute for  some moguls and he beat us up again. Man that guy was so smooth. Me and a few others ended up closing down one of the local bars with him. The Depot, it was. He and the owner Moose are good friends.

 

Those were the days huh?

 

Post 242 is a good one BTW. Good info Joe.

 

I don't ski bumps all day anymore and I don't hammer the zipperline all the time. Don't know if I said that before so I don't want any of you to be thinking I do. In fact, I probably use the technical line more so than not, hate that word technical line. Cause I think any line is technical if you want to consider that.

 

As far as that picture of Outhouse goes, sitting back here in the East where we have maybe 2" of snow on the ground, could only leave every skiing male who's been there a "Woody"

 

Just so that "Whumf" sound you hear is from your skis blasting the powder, and not the wind leaving your lungs from a chestpoundergogglesmasher.

 

 

Question for you Joey, do you change your tactics in unevenly spaced bumps with a dual falline?

 

If so, what are they?

 

Agree that all the lines are technical but why would anyone exile there skiing to just concentrating on the zipper line then? Ski the zipper line, bank off the sides and ski over the tops SVMM skis on all the areas.  Ski every where. Do it all is what we are saying.


Ask a lot of ? But never answer any.

 

Post 242 is what all skiers should be striving for.

 

If you don't just hammer the zipper what are we at odds about ski technique for you should agree.

 

Change tactics. Not at all it skiing and the best skiers in the world all do some of the same fundamental moves to turn when skiing. Except Zipper liners. Race, Ski moguls, Powder, ect it is all the same basics...................................

 

Another big thing that we work on is how fast or quick the skis come across the fall line. The quicker the better

 

A lot of post trying to kill the thread with no subject matter. Good pictures.

 

Tell me this why do skiers that zipper line think it is the ultimate? Don't say more efficient or any other subjective non technical answer.

 

  Is the ski doing the work?

 

  Is the skier waiting to hit the mogul to get reverse camber in the ski?

 

Do you wait to hit the backside of the mogul with the pole plant?

post #258 of 387

Powder skiing shot same fundamentals. Call it float and sting. Means be heavy when turning and float in between turns. BTW Ski the same skis too. Like a knife at a gun fight.

 

DVC00087.JPG

post #259 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post


 

Tell me this why do skiers that zipper line think it is the ultimate? Don't say more efficient or any other subjective non technical answer.

 


Speed.  Least amount of time spent going uphill.  Fastest time in the course unless ripping across the tops on 200+ cm skis?  That is my guess

post #260 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post


 

Tell me this why do skiers that zipper line think it is the ultimate? Don't say more efficient or any other subjective non technical answer.

 


Speed.  Least amount of time spent going uphill.  Fastest time in the course unless ripping across the tops on 200+ cm skis?  That is my guess



Also fun to do and exciting to watch.  I wouldn't call it 'the ultimate' though...to each his own.

 

And more Jane...overcast:

4436538405_ea6d402f7c_z.jpg?zz=1

post #261 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abox View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post



 

 

And more Jane...overcast:

4436538405_ea6d402f7c_z.jpg?zz=1


nonono2.gifFlat light..Ugh.  I wouldn't be "attacking" that.  I take it much more casually in flat light.

post #262 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailbender View Post

 

Quote:
Tog wrote:
 

This photo almost redeems this thread.

Those aren't bumps, they're thumpfs! That's what they sound like when you nail the tops and the powder goes flying.

 

I like that one, I call it "boofing".  Thumpfs works for sure.


hijack2.gif Another information-free post coming up...

 

The whitewater kayaking crowd uses the term "boofing" to refer to deliberately bouncing over a rock that, unlike Nail's bumps, doesn't have enough water on top to actually float over.

 

And unlike skis, whitewater kayaks tend to get seriously scratched up on their first run - but they're built for it.
 

post #263 of 387

There are some serious real world applications to being flexible to multiple bump skiing line approaches.  Drawing colored lines on photographs is fun and creative and all..  But you forgot to add the gapers and yard sales along the way.. and the people that are stopped then suddenlyeek.gif take off in front of you going the opposite direction you thought they were going to go.  Many of my bump runs involve quite a bit of meandering from one side of the trail to the other and back just to negotiate other moving traffic on the runbiggrin.gif

post #264 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post


nonono2.gifFlat light..Ugh.  I wouldn't be "attacking" that.  I take it much more casually in flat light.


Sunshine!?!! We don't need no steenking sunshine!! If the sun is shining, it isn't snowing! biggrin.gif

 

In certain parts of the world which will not be specifically identified here (ahem!), you learn to ski in flat light, or you don't ski much. I still don't like flat light on big, open slopes, but the posted MJ picture looks like there is at least some definition. Trees help. The upper bowls of A-Basin can be especially bad.

 

The bumps look soft, and they appear to be covered with a nice soft coat of fresh. So ski soft. The probability that you'll hit something you can't see is high. The probability that the underlying surface isn't shaped quite the same as what you can see is high. Too stiff, too harsh, and you'll get knocked around. You need functional tension in your legs and core, but you also need to be able to relax that tension selectively and instantly - and then reassert it. Absorption and extension, but you can't always see what you have to absorb. Can be challenging.

 

Go play!

 

 


 

post #265 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhcooley View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post


nonono2.gifFlat light..Ugh.  I wouldn't be "attacking" that.  I take it much more casually in flat light.


Sunshine!?!! We don't need no steenking sunshine!! If the sun is shining, it isn't snowing! biggrin.gif

 

Go play!


 

I didn't say I wouldn't ski it.   Heck, it costs me a lot of money when I get to ski stuff like that.  I'm not sitting it out.  But, I'm not going at it total balls out either..  Why risk ruining the whole vacation.  And, there is a solution to skiing bumps while living in areas that tend to remain cloudy for months.  It's called night skiingbiggrin.gif  Now, powder I will attack in practically ZERO visibility
 

post #266 of 387
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post

Powder skiing shot same fundamentals. Call it float and sting. Means be heavy when turning and float in between turns. BTW Ski the same skis too. Like a knife at a gun fight.

 

DVC00087.JPG



I like this. We agree.

 

I ski powder much the same as I ski moguls. Pierre will vouch for this. I remember skiing some deep stuff at Sugar Bowl some years back, telling him just this scenario.

 

Nail brought up a thought a few posts ago about old guys knowing the good moves and how to ski the technical lines. There is truth in that statement. I think us old guys who learned to ski moguls in the 70's on longer, narrow boards have mastered different techniques over the years before the big sidecut carving skis came intto use. I'm not shirking the younger generations cause they are some great skiers but more one dimensional.

 

I think you guys have me wrong and think because I defend zipperline methods, that doesn't mean that's all I ski. I use a technique alot similar if not the same as what you are calling SVMM I just don't like to call it that and I don't think it originated in Sv. It was born many years ago by many of us lod guys at a time when hotdogging was mogul skiing, double daffys and 360's were called helicopters. And we thought Joey Cordeau was king shit.

 

This thread is getting better.

post #267 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
 

 

And more Jane...overcast:

4436538405_ea6d402f7c_z.jpg?zz=1


nonono2.gifFlat light..Ugh.  I wouldn't be "attacking" that.  I take it much more casually in flat light.



It actually wasn't that bad - pic taken on my phone so not greatest quality.  That was last winter...here's the same trail today taken from higher up (for those in the know - Gandy Dancer, right where it splits off from the MJ trail).  The pic above was at that squarish section in the middle:

 

5227247649_568346382d_z.jpg

post #268 of 387

LOL.. you skied it today FTW!icon14.gif

post #269 of 387

 

Quote:
Lars wrote:
 
It was born many years ago by many of us lod guys at a time when hotdogging was mogul skiing, double daffys and 360's were called helicopters. And we thought Joey Cordeau was king shit.

 

I'll tell you what is the most impressive Lars, CVJ is still "THE MAN" 3 decades later.   I can remember, in the 80's, shark attacking him in an ad hock dual and when he realized it, would turn on the burners and ski like it was Finals of a Tour Event.   I wasn't the only skier playing the game either, duals and shark attacks were the norm, off the charts on the fun meter.  There are quite a few very solid bump skiers here in SV and  IMO, we've all improved our game over the years, but so did Joe and even more so.  There is one characteristic that he has shown consistently, a dedicated work ethic and desire to ski better, faster, smoother and more powerfully today than yesterday, there's no time to live in the past.   If you ever get to ski with your old mogul hero again, you will be nothing short of impressed and probably more so now than the image your memory holds. 

 

 

 

post #270 of 387

 

Quote:

It actually wasn't that bad - pic taken on my phone so not greatest quality.  That was last winter...here's the same trail today taken from higher up (for those in the know - Gandy Dancer, right where it splits off from the MJ trail).  The pic above was at that squarish section in the middle:

 

5227247649_568346382d_z.jpg

Nice snow pack for early season.  Now stuff your tips into that  pile on the front right for me, it needs a track.   We've got nothing like that yet.

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