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Ski boots coming full circle - Page 3

post #61 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by clink83 View Post


Why didn't you try on something that would fit, like a dobermann boot? If you can fit into a krypton you actually don't have that narrow of a foot...

So without ever seeing my feet you can decide that the Nordica Doberman boot fits my feet?   Ridiculous.  The Krypton and Dobermann are both 98mm boots and I was not at all interested in another race boot, low end or otherwise.

post #62 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post

So without ever seeing my feet you can decide that the Nordica Doberman boot fits my feet?   Ridiculous.  The Krypton and Dobermann are both 98mm boots and I was not at all interested in another race boot, low end or otherwise.

Well, as race boots go, the Dobie is a pretty generic fit that works for a wide range of feet... Especially in a 98 last. Most of the lowers from other manufacturers have copied the Dobie lower - even down to the hardware in some cases I've noticed. So, not that ridiculous of a statement, but if you like the Kryptons, ski them and enjoy.

Btw, if your foot is truly as narrow as you say with a high arch, try Lange/Rossi if you ever head back into race boots.
post #63 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post

So without ever seeing my feet you can decide that the Nordica Doberman boot fits my feet?   Ridiculous.  The Krypton and Dobermann are both 98mm boots and I was not at all interested in another race boot, low end or otherwise.
Well, for one the krypton is not a narrow boot at all. They can all it a 98mm last, but its not. You can put your foot in it and tell. Same for the Doberman last, its narrower than other "98mm" boots.
Two,I just used the doberman as an generic example because its a narrower boot with a higher instep that is used in several other lines(patron pro).
I don't understand why people put their feet in the wrong boot then claim 3 peice boot or a rear entry boot is the magic answer.
Edited by clink83 - 1/26/15 at 9:48pm
post #64 of 82

I have been trawling the web concerning the rear entry boots and it seems as though the manufacturers are not listening to the needs of a large proportion of occasional skiers who do not want to go racing/jumping/trick skiing but just want to go down the mountain gracefully with an adequate sensation of speed and a great sensation of comfort.

 

I have size 12 US feet and they are very wide, (off the chart of a recent shoe gauge I tried)  The Salomon SX62s for some reason fit me perfectly.

I have just put my ski pass number onto the skiline.com web and this is what came up.

 

"

"At January 21st 2015 the Skiline skiers at the skiresort Saalbach, Hinterglemm Leogang have performed at slightly above average level

 

Your performance compared to all other Skiline skiiers on this day is above average

 

You are now in the upper half of the Skiline skiers and only 27% of the skiers are better than you"

 

 

As I said before, I am 61 years old and ski generally for one week a year and I do not want that week ruined by sore feet.  I go partly for the skiing, partly for the company and apres ski and partly for the holiday break.  If you are skiing with a group of people in this age group you are not going to ski any faster than the slowest in the group on a day out.  So rather than going headlong down the slopes chasing friends dangerously and competitively as I did in my youth I rather enjoy slowing down and trying to perfect and fine tune my movements.

 

I have felt like a bit of a freak at the start of my posts but having read these posts from another site I wish Salomon would take another look at rear entry boots with updated plastics.

 

 

 

These are a selection of posts I have copied concerning rear entry boots

 

 

================================================================================================

 

I have the distinction of having used every evolution of the Salomon rear entry boots to the Integral model and beyond.  Salomon did have, without a doubt the best skiing rear entry boot on the market and protected what made them work with patents galore.  When down sized and a few small modifications were made they skied quite well.  While working for Salomon for a few years it became apparent to me that all the imitators marketed their rear entries, which really really sucked, as their comfort and convenience models and their two piece architectures as their performance models.  This made it difficult for Salomon to come into a shop or clinic and tout their rear entry as a true performance boot when the other six reps who were just in that shop are telling the kids on the floor otherwise.  The perception became, performance = 2 piece, comfort/sport = rear entry.  

 

I remember a National sales meeting we had in Aspen where we tested everyone else's rear entry models against ours.  We sat in the resturaunt at the top of Ajax mountain and tried on each model making initial fit evaluations then skiing down the mountain and evaluating the skiing performance.  I remember to this day the absolute worst skiing boot I have ever skied, the Nordica Syntech rear entry!  That thing won the "out of the box fit" evaluation but when I skied it the boot flexed rearward more than forward.  I could actually do telemark turns with the boots!  It didnt' flex forward worth beans and was like hitting a wall which instantly pushed you into the back seat.  Nordica sold a shit load of those boots though because they fit great in the shop.  I can only imagine how many skiers gave up the sport because of that boot?  You could pick them out of a crowd because they would be hovering in the back seat all the time.

 

I believe Salomon reached the performance limitations and the marketing limitations of the rear entry design and decided it was time to move on and we went from Orange boots to PINK boots with the intro of the Integral, a three piece design which had an even shorter life span.

 "Givin' you the Edge" www

 

 

 

 

 

The Salomon rear entrys were great.  There was a reaons they dominated the market.  Too well, thou, as it created a whole host of knock-offs.  The "copies" didnt work because Salomon had patented all their internal cables sytems (namely the heel one which made them work), so without that, as the copies were, they sucked.

 

The Salomon ones were great thou, Marc Giredelli won the overall WC title on a pair, Scott Schmidt established "extreme skiing" on a pair...to name a few....but yeah....public perception, went sour, and they died.

 

I loved Grizzeled perceptions thou - no heel hold?  the salomon rear entry had the best heel hold of any boot!, they didnt flex?????????????/ WTF?  These had the most adjustable flex ever, and could be made super soft, too super stiff!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

anonymous 13 months ago

I have been skiing for almost 30 years and I have to say the most comfortable boots were the rear entry. I wore then till the base plates broke. I've used several front entry since but here's the problem. I have a narrow foot and a high arch so I wear a tight fitting boot. Since I'm not a bunny on the slopes anymore it's very difficult and painful to super extend my foot to get the angle to enter the boot. I am now on the hunt for a rear entry boot. For me the "safest" boot is the one that is comfortable, a great fit and gives you the performance you crave. I bet anyone who owned a rear entry boot will still say it's the best boot ever. The unsafe boot is the one that looks great but rubs or causes cramping and causes you not to ski well due to discomfort! Sometimes newer, advanced technology is not always the best. You'll know what I mean in about 30 years!!

 

.

anonymous 12 months ago

Rear entry are still best for people with long narrow feet. I have tried front entry boots and have not been as happy with them. also I own parabolic skis but admit they do not work as well for me. tthe ski is wider than my stance and tend to overlap. granted not many people ski with the classic style of skis locked together,bursitis a real problem. no industry is more faddish than the ski industry.


anonymous 13 months ago

I will never ever ski in 4 buckle front entry boots again, after spending 1 season on the 4 buckle front entries, I have come to one determination: I ski better on rear entries for the one reason; that it doesn't hurt my chins! Last time at Tahoe I decided to ditch my rossignol front entry and try to rent different sets of boots to find on that doesn't hurt. Everyone of them hurt the front of my chins. I will either give up skiing or continue with rear entries. It's pretty much that simple.


anonymous 14 months ago

I am still skiing on 1977 Hanson ski boots. My skis are top of the line 1989 Rossignol slalom race skis (I bought as many up as I could for only $99). I don't change my gear because if something works and feels good- I stick with it. I am considered one of the best stylin' skiers in Canada at age 50 who does not need disco FAT skis to ski good. Anybody can ski on FAT skis, only good skiers can ski on the old skinny skis!


anonymous 23 months ago

This Christmas, I received a pair of brand new, high-end ski boots. I had been skiing in the same Salomon rear-entry ski boots for the past 15 years, and always avoided buying new ones because my old rear-entry ones were so comfortable. After getting new ones, I sold me old boots and began trying my new boots. I HATED THEM!!! They were the most uncomfortable things I had ever worn... sore, cramped feet and sore thighs make for a horrible day on the hill!! I have now sold my new ski boots, and bought THE EXACT SAME REAR-ENTRY boots that I had before!! I am now loving them and am enjoying my day on the hill again!! Thank you rear-entry boots for the comfortable day! By the way, I am a 27 year old woman (not 50) and have been skiing since I was a child. I would consider myself a very good skier, and rear-entry boots are the way to go when wanting to enjoy a wonderful, comfortable day on the hill. If you are considering giving up your old rear-entry boots, don't do it!!


anonymous 23 months ago

Four years ago a very knowledgable sales rep from a very reputable ski shop in Vancouver spent 2 hours trying to find a boot that would fit me. (size 6, wide foot, wide calves). He looked me straight in the eye and said I could see you a pair and we'd spend about $1000 trying to get them to fit you but what you need is a rear entry boot so start looking at the Thrift Stores. And I found one - and it is the BEST! And now I see Alpina is making them once again....they will be back - like all good trends are. But I hope they will be back to stay!


anonymous 23 months ago

This article makes no case at all. I have tried new ski boots no less than six times, and tide I actually bought them. No dice. I am a forty year veteran skier who grew up skiing ome of the most awesome terrain in the alps. No ski boot I have ever tried even comes close to the comfort and support I get from my 1985 Salomon sx rear entry boots. I skied on them yesterday as a matter of fact. All this hogwash about new technology in the plastic - such horseshit. Then, I spoke to a finnd of mine who works fr Nordica and he told me they stopped making rear entry boots because the were too expensive to make.


anonymous 2 years ago

Sorry, but a lot of the newer boots are not comfortable for people with very large calf's (being African American and German my calf's are huge). The only boots that I've been able to fit have been rear entry boots. Not every one is built like Saun White.


 

 

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anonymous 2 years ago

Sorry, but the newer boots cause my knees to ache and are simply too painful. I need to be able to stand up straight when I come to a stop which I can't do in the newer boots since they seem to force a permanent bent knee stance.


anonymous 23 months ago

Unfortunately, this is a simplistic paper about rear entry boots. Properly designed shell of rear entry boot in combination with heat molded foam liner or inflatable liner shall provide much better fit for feet/shank than front entry boots. It is very easy to design excellent back part of this boot, which will lock leg/shank in the boot in perfect position. No doubt, properly designed and manufactured rear entry boots shall outperform front entry boots. They are for next world champions. And for advanced skies.


anonymous 23 months ago

Bill


anonymous 23 months ago

Unfortunately for many skiiers, the standard buckle boot is made to fit the most common foot and those with very high insteps and extra wide feet suffer. I've tried almost every buckle boot made and many are uncomfortable even without the liner, they are too narrow and flat angled at the top. The rear entry, while not as much control, doesn't crush the high instep, wide foot, and at least you can ski without tears in our eyes. I've been skiing for over 30 years and with rear entry for over 10 and won't give them up until I can find a "custom" shell and not the same old narrow, flat angled ones made today.


anonymous 23 months ago

Hate to correct the youngster that wrote this, but she obviously never tried the Hanson Exhibition or Experimentals.

Bought a pair in 1971, and used them for both racing and recreational, and were extremely comfortable and warm in all conditions. Lateral support was second to none ( and a LOT better than my brand new Rossignols), rear support was rock-solid rigid, and forward flex could easily be varied over a wide range. Never experienced the snow incursion that someone else mentioned. Fit was perfect, and I have wide toes, narrow heel, high, sharp instep, and bony ankles - everything that no other boot out there could accommodate correctly . Hansons secret was the wax-fit bladder that they used. Most companies that followed Hanson quite frankly didn't know what they were doing, tried to design a rear-entry boot using the top-entry thought and design process, came up with all sorts of total crap, and gave rear-entry a bad name.

Entry was easy - push your foot in part way, stand up, and tap the toe against the floor once or twice until you foot was seated in place, rotate the rear up, and secure the clamp. ZERO pain, and perfect support. Unfortunately, the foam liner finally died 17 years later ( Hanson did indeed have a problem there), and the boots hit the trash bin. Had I been smart, I would have kept the shells as the basis for new liners.

After using rentals a few times over the last 25 years ( my engineering job kept me off the slopes except for a few rare occasions), I decided that it was time to get new equipment and get back out there at least once a week. Too old now and not racing any more, I bought a pair of Rossignol Expreience 120's. I've spent untold hours getting them to fit correctly and not have high-pressure points on my instep and ankles, and they still do not even come close to the Hansons.

Rear entry boots will indeed be back in favor in the future, but it will take someone with the proper technical competence and knowledge of what went on before to come up with one that fulfills the promise and get accepted by the ignorant youngsters out there :) .


anonymous 21 months ago

I agree with Richard P in general. I started skiing in 1966 at 8 [laceup leather boots, cable throw bindings, rope tows and palmas. From 1979-1991 I ran my own ski shop, for boots - Salomon, Koflack, Lange, Munari, & San Marco were my mainstays. In 79 I foam fit the top of the line San Marco racing boot for myself to run gates and got a Hanson copy cat two buckle rear entry San Marco called Hot Dog. I skied the Hot Dog 95% of the time until the SX91 salomon followed by the 450CE Koflack which I still have the shells for and am building new liners. My racer friends would kid me for using rear entries and I would bet them to try and stay in my tracks in the bumps.

In 95 or 6 the CEO of Rossignol admitted in a trade article that the reason they stopped making rear entry boots and started the "performance" campaign in the early 90's was because people were not replacing their old boots often enough because their rear entry boot were "too comfortable" and had nothing to do with performance differences. I concluded that meant that the boots of the future would regress, not be as easy to get on and off, or not be comfortable for the "life" of the boot [liner breakdown] all in the name of "performance" but really about skier repurchase desires of the makers.

IMO someone could reintroduce almost any of the two top 4 end rear entry boots from 88 and take 10-15% of the US market in three years with an EVA type moldable liner.

I also have finally found a ski I like better than my 91 Blizzard SL's but it sure isn't a rocker ski. Which still mystifies me why people like them but then people liked the short "pivot" skis of the 70's too. I guess carving a turn is just too ingrained. Funny the Rossignol rep gave me a warning when he set the skis up for me that I would "re-eally" have to "ca-arve my turns and be "on" the skies. Expect to see a marketing blitz in a few years trying to get people back to skis that carve citing something they think as ugly about style of skiing rocker types trumped up by some ski industry manufacturer who needs sales.


anonymous 17 months ago

I agree with F. Robert. I have very large calfs and, very wide feet. Tried the new boot style, and almost killed myself in addition to the pain in my foot, toes and ankle. I am seeking another set of rear entry boots. My old pair must be at least 30 years and are starting to lose the padding inside.

 

post #65 of 82
Bill, if you go to a good bootfitter, and take an open mind with you, you might find a pair of boots which aren't a particular brand or style will fit your feet.
post #66 of 82

I can relate to these Tecnica Mach 1 110's being hard to put on and harder to take off.  And I can see that older folks with compromised hand strength and ankle flexibility want nothing to do with these 2 cuff boots.  I'm 50 and not there yet.  Bring on the rear entry as being very easy to put on and fitting a large range of feet.  Comfort and enjoyment of the sport is #1!

 

However gone is the high level skiing where a close fitting "locked in" boot allows amazing transfer of energy.  In all my years of trying comfortable rear entry boots on the hill as demos (and I always paid for the premium boots) I never could ski at the same level even though I was comfortable.

post #67 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat View Post

Bill, if you go to a good bootfitter, and take an open mind with you, you might find a pair of boots which aren't a particular brand or style will fit your feet.

But my problem seems to be that the boots fit perfectly but they are twenty five years old and like the sword of Damocles in terms of breaking up apparently.

I go to what seems to be the top shop in town, and I am attended to by three or more people at midday as everyone is on the slopes.
How do I know if they are good boot fitters or not.? Certainly they claim to be the best having sold and serviced thousands of boots over the years.

I had a completely open mind about the boots they intended to sell me, I did not mention a brand name or type of boot. I just assumed that I was going to see an immediate improvement in feel and control, and the only question was could I stand the discomfort and was it worth it.

What shocked me was that I could not ski in these boots, I do not know why and I am sure I do not want to waste another days skiing finding out. I still cannot sleep on my right side due to falling on my shoulder doing relatively nothing adventurous.

With the Salomon SX62s I find that the toe adjustment screw and heel adjustment screw tighten the boot to a degree where I cannot move my toes at all which is not what I want, but just shows that the boots can be tightened as required and beyond.

The Salomon rear entry boots seem to have a superior design to other makes, some of which may have given rear entry a bad name.

When I started writing on this thread I thought that I was just an oddball old guy, set in his ways but as you can see from the posts there is a veritable avalanche of like minded folk and surely there is enough of a market for Salomon to reintroduce rear entry with superior materials.
post #68 of 82

AFAIK the big knock on rear entry boots was there inability to allow adequate forward flexing of the ankle. If this is indeed the case then it seems very unlikely for any rear entry boot to make a comeback.

post #69 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanoT View Post

AFAIK the big knock on rear entry boots was there inability to allow adequate forward flexing of the ankle. If this is indeed the case then it seems very unlikely for any rear entry boot to make a comeback.
Read that post up above talking about the sales meeting in Aspen and the Nordica Syntech boots. Those were the horror shows. I'm pretty sure that's @Bud Heishman talking. Maybe he'll respond.
Bill you should hit "quote", copy the result , then paste in your post. That way it includes a link to the original. Also you posted the same guy like 4 times.

Would love to see a quality rear entry boot come back. Salomon's patents must be expired by now. Lot's of people have ankle issues that make it hard to get into a boot.
post #70 of 82
Surprised this thread has gotten this far without someone mentioning apex boots. Maybe that would be the ideal solution for all of those hoping for a comfortable rear entry boot.
post #71 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingFish View Post

Surprised this thread has gotten this far without someone mentioning apex boots. Maybe that would be the ideal solution for all of those hoping for a comfortable rear entry boot.

Thank you for that post, I have just read this thread on epicski and I will definitely consider them if my Salomons break up

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/102828/apex-ski-boot/120

post #72 of 82
Back on page
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingFish View Post

Surprised this thread has gotten this far without someone mentioning apex boots. Maybe that would be the ideal solution for all of those hoping for a comfortable rear entry boot.
Page 1 post 11 back in 2010 starthaus mentioned the apex boot.

And he had sold one at the time... My Dad has one of the first models released. Loves the boot however it's probably too stiff for him. They have a lot more new models and options that make this line of boots a lot more attractive. So much so that he just upgraded his boots to this years model.



DC
post #73 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post


Read that post up above talking about the sales meeting in Aspen and the Nordica Syntech boots. Those were the horror shows. I'm pretty sure that's @Bud Heishman talking. Maybe he'll respond.
Bill you should hit "quote", copy the result , then paste in your post. That way it includes a link to the original. Also you posted the same guy like 4 times.

Would love to see a quality rear entry boot come back. Salomon's patents must be expired by now. Lot's of people have ankle issues that make it hard to get into a boot.

 

 

I see the words "Nordica Syntech" and suddenly have a flashback sensation of riding the tails of my skis like I was water-skiing. One thing you have to love about the internet age, is that that I doubt a company could get away with making something that bad these days without its reputation getting trashed online. But 1994 was just on the cusp. A few years later when I bought my next boots the amount of info available online was already incredibly helpful.

post #74 of 82
Just an fyi for all those that are still rockn rear entry boots, I was at my local hill this morning and while riding the first chair up along the side of the trail was the front half of a ski boot. Apparently during last nights session some ones boot exploded. The plastic of rear entry boots are a ticking time bomb just waiting to go off, i personally don't want to experience my boot splitting in half with half my foot sticking out as I'm skiing down a run.
For those that refuse to change good luck and I hope you don't get hurt.
post #75 of 82

@aschick You are not supposed to ride the tails of your waterskis! 

 

Some rear entry boots sucked, some rocked. Good engineers and designers are capable of working within many parameters (like rear entry). My old red Raichle rear entries were wonderful performers.

 

Plastic lifespan does vary with type of plastic and handling. Blanket claims that all rear entry boots will explode soon are a bit over the top. But realistically, it is time for new boots. Some rear entry choices would be nice. 

 

I love my Full Tilts - a modern version of an ancient design. But even those have had some nice tweaks to improve the little things.

 

Some true creativity is possible. I converted some old boots to a snowboard style hybrid. Comfortable and reasonable performance. The project ended when the plastic of the old boots exploded. Old boots! And I liked the Full Tilts I bought enough to take away the design pressure. Seeing dchan's dad's boots sparked a bit of interest but I can't find a place to demo them. Besides, I have too many projects already.

 

Eric

post #76 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinjun View Post

Just an fyi for all those that are still rockn rear entry boots, I was at my local hill this morning and while riding the first chair up along the side of the trail was the front half of a ski boot. Apparently during last nights session some ones boot exploded. The plastic of rear entry boots are a ticking time bomb just waiting to go off, i personally don't want to experience my boot splitting in half with half my foot sticking out as I'm skiing down a run.
For those that refuse to change good luck and I hope you don't get hurt.

I think the irony  is that I listened to the prophets of doom here, went and tried some of the latest boots from the ski shop because of these fears, and ended up falling twice in the first 50 yards due to no control at all and my shoulder still hurts so I cannot sleep on that side three weeks later!

post #77 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billhook View Post

I think the irony  is that I listened to the prophets of doom here, went and tried some of the latest boots from the ski shop because of these fears, and ended up falling twice in the first 50 yards due to no control at all and my shoulder still hurts so I cannot sleep on that side three weeks later!

Yes... Pretty certain the boot caused this. I fell a couple weeks ago and called Head about it. They said they couldn't warrantee last year's shell. I'm really bummed since they hadn't changed anything for this years. Then I called their ski department and they told me to take a lesson. I'll never ski their product again. Back to telemark gear for me. When I fell then, I knew it was the binding's fault because they all have broken heels, and no real telemarker ever takes a lesson. smile.gif
post #78 of 82
Bill, have you tried any AT boots? My Scarpas are super easy to get into, although the buckles are a bit fiddly.
post #79 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


Yes... Pretty certain the boot caused this. I fell a couple weeks ago and called Head about it. They said they couldn't warrantee last year's shell. I'm really bummed since they hadn't changed anything for this years. Then I called their ski department and they told me to take a lesson. I'll never ski their product again. Back to telemark gear for me. When I fell then, I knew it was the binding's fault because they all have broken heels, and no real telemarker ever takes a lesson. smile.gif

 When I fell, the bootmaker blamed the bar stool and alcohol.

post #80 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by veteran View Post
 

 When I fell, the bootmaker blamed the bar stool and alcohol.

OK I admit that it was really difficult trying to do sharp turns on the piste at night while sitting on a bar stool with a glass of beer in one hand and a flashlight in the other hand!

post #81 of 82

And I would rather risk a boot break up than suffer what this guy suffered in an attempt to find the right boots.

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/132075/big-toe-pain-and-other-issues-with-boots

 

As I said before, I do not think that a boot break up is any more dramatic than a puncture in a car.  

Inconvenience is the most likely result, Probably with one cold foot.

A friend had his modern boot break while entering the chairlift last season.

But balance that risk with having to pay a lot of money for a holiday, hotel and flight and go there to find your week ruined by foot agony and subsequent trips to a podiatrist on your return, it is not worth taking that chance while the old boots work so well.

post #82 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billhook View Post

And I would rather risk a boot break up than suffer what this guy suffered in an attempt to find the right boots.

http://www.epicski.com/t/132075/big-toe-pain-and-other-issues-with-boots

As I said before, I do not think that a boot break up is any more dramatic than a puncture in a car.  
Inconvenience is the most likely result, Probably with one cold foot.
A friend had his modern boot break while entering the chairlift last season.
But balance that risk with having to pay a lot of money for a holiday, hotel and flight and go there to find your week ruined by foot agony and subsequent trips to a podiatrist on your return, it is not worth taking that chance while the old boots work so well.

...and the measles vaccine causes autism. smile.gif. Good luck with your boots though.
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