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Are skiers becoming weenies and spoiled? - Page 2

post #31 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundturns View Post

I feel like  'm losing enthusiasm. I didn't go this AM because the conditions were groomed granular and frozen granular. Anybody enjoy skiing on marbles?

Yeah, I agree.  I want to go skiing tomorrow in the Catskills, NY, but I'm thinking Why bother if the conditions are not going to be excellent.  I think I'm becoming a snow snob.  I want snow and lots of it.  If there's just marbles and gravel I'd rather stay home.
post #32 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post

After all, what else is there to do in the winter in Oregon?    

  The mountain seems downright empty. I skied today (Christmas break, Saturday, sunny and 30 degrees), I expected the mountain to be packed, and the only time I waited more than 30 seconds for a lift is when it had stopped due to a blown breaker.

 

You must not fish for steelhead.  It's as addictive as hip deep powder.

Your original post was about skiers in general "becoming weenies and spoiled", but your examples where only based on Central Oregon observations.  Do you think the lack of guest numbers have anything to do with Powdr Corp?  I know many past Bachelor skiers have jumped ship to Hoodoo.

The taller mountain 100 miles to your North has been busy this Christmas break.  Many new riders giving it a shot, both young and not so young.

Maybe people don't want to travel from the metro area for a product and service they feel is no better than what they can get closer to home.
post #33 of 59
 I think it's the overwhelming amount of negativity about winter and snow.

Media around here portrays snow in a depressing manner, news casters use negative body language and depressing comments whenever snow is in the forecast. Thus, audience now has negative attitude towards it.

This drives me crazy - unless your handicapped or over 60, move or shut the fu#k up.
post #34 of 59
 I agree Jag.  Here in NYC the newscasters find snow to be so evil that they can't even mention it.   Over the last few years you won't even hear them say the word.  They say "the white stuff," as if it's this evil from earth and merely mentioning it will more of the curse.

YES, bring it about.  It's the northeast.  If you don't like it, well, as you've said, "unless you're handicapped or over 60, move or shut the fu#k up."
post #35 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCJIM View Post




Yeah, I agree.  I want to go skiing tomorrow in the Catskills, NY, but I'm thinking Why bother if the conditions are not going to be excellent.  I think I'm becoming a snow snob.  I want snow and lots of it.  If there's just marbles and gravel I'd rather stay home.

I can relate to your predicament.

It's different if you live at the ski area. You can ski some crummy snow with the idea that you are getting a necessary work out, or you can practice something you are having difficulty with. You think this way because each day builds something for the next, and is averaged out with the next.

without the continuity between poor and good days, the poor days don't have a lot of significance. If I had to drive 4 hours, as I used to, I would only go up for the storms, for the fun.
post #36 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCJIM View Post

 I agree Jag.  Here in NYC the newscasters find snow to be so evil that they can't even mention it.   Over the last few years you won't even hear them say the word.  They say "the white stuff," as if it's this evil from earth and merely mentioning it will more of the curse.
 

You're hanging out with the wrong crowd then! ;-)

Not everyone I know skis. But most don't mind the snow or the cold. It's just part of winter and deal with it bravely and cheerfully!

I also don't look at the phenomena negatively like most here.

I never like skiing the crapy condition. But in the past, before up to the minute online weather forecast, I wouldn't know what kind of condition I'll see until I got to the mountain. So I had to ski whatever condition I find. 

Now, I have the choice to not setting off at all when the condition isn't to my liking! That's power to be choosy. 

More over, with cheaper air fare, I can jump on a plane and go to Colorado for a weekend. So it's my choice to skip 2 crapy weekends in the northeast and use the time and money to go out west for 3 days of stella skiiing. 

If that makes me a "spoiled" skier in some people's eyes, so be it.

The only strange thing is, the lift line, even with all of us "spoiled" skiers NOT THERE, are still just as long...
Edited by at_nyc - 12/27/09 at 10:14pm
post #37 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag View Post

 I think it's the overwhelming amount of negativity about winter and snow.

Media around here portrays snow in a depressing manner, news casters use negative body language and depressing comments whenever snow is in the forecast. Thus, audience now has negative attitude towards it.

This drives me crazy - unless your handicapped or over 60, move or shut the fu#k up.

Good point.  The local cat+dog news (which I rarely watch) drives me crazy.  They make a big deal (batten down the hatches!  It may snow an inch or 2 tonight!) about every little weather event in the quest to generate hysteria and ratings.  C'mon, this is Bend. It snows here.  Everyone has a Subaru and winter tires. Deal with it.  I wouldn't be surprised if it turns off skiers: "if you drive to the mountain, you may DIE!".  No wonder Americans are always in fear of crime (which in reality is very low), their kid being kidnapped (almost never happens, but the cable "news" loves to rant about the latest cute little blonde girl that was snatched), the government, a straw man rogue terrorist state, the weather, and the list goes on.  The point is that we trained to be scared and accentuate the bad things that might happen, and ignore all of the good things that shouldn't be missed.  Like the "marginal" snow that is quite fun to ski.  Therefore, nobody wants to take a chance on skiing "marginal" snow; they would rather sit around and complain that "the skiing isn't any good" without really skiing.  Those of us that are skiing are having a ball; it was all smiles today from returning customers.  Nobody said "boy, I wish I had worked instead of skiing today". 


Another silly example of scaring the sense out of people: the ridiculous "experts only" sign at the base of the Summit chair. "It isn't groomed, so you have to be an expert to ski it" goes the thought.  Since when did you have to be an expert to ski a 20 degree slope that isn't groomed? Forgive me if I am wrong, but weren't ski lifts invented before modern grooming? I assume all of the people skiing back then weren't automatically experts; they had to learn somehow, right?

To another poster referring to Mt. Hood being busier than Bachelor: when Meadows sells passes for $399, they are getting people up there to ski, which seems logical in this day of limited discretionary spending.  On the hill, I rarely see anyone I know; most of the cyclists and climbers I am friends with can't afford to ski more than a couple of days a year, or have other interests, such as climbing and riding their bike.   I hear something is in the works for an intro to skiing package later this season, and it is about time.  More people need to be brought into the sport and get hooked.

post #38 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post

 On the hill, I rarely see anyone I know; most of the cyclists and climbers I am friends with can't afford to ski more than a couple of days a year, or have other interests, such as climbing and riding their bike.   I hear something is in the works for an intro to skiing package later this season, and it is about time.  More people need to be brought into the sport and get hooked.


 


Seems that there are not too many Renaissance athletes out there.....people who do it all.  Climbers and bikers climb and bike in misery through the winter.  They leave the skiing to people who have their identity wrapped up in skiing.

On the upside, the new grooming I invested heavily in for the XC trails at Meisner Snow Park were in spectacular condition today.  The trail were full of really horrendously bad skaters.  I think that is a good thing....lots of people taking it up.

On the flip side, I'm working with the mountain on the uphill policy.  They were not expecting the hundreds of people into AT skiing.  I'm not sure it is a good thing.  Quite a few of the uphill skiers have passes, but at the same time, many look down on riding lifts.  Could it be that some of the hard core have become disenchanted and moved to the fringe?
post #39 of 59
 I haven't seen this in the East either.   I've been skiing my age for a number of years, this year thus will have to hit 57 days, but plan on close to 70.   I also think the park has increased the enthusiasm in young people, and not just snowboarders.  I see more skiers in the park now then snowboarders.

Some lifelong skiers get a bit bored with skiing I guess (seems wrong to call this spoiled or weenies, they just lost their enthusiasm.)

I do agree that the general public has too many options these days - 200 TV channels, high speed internet, video games - definitely has spread the entertainment out amongst more venues.

However I see the same people year after year grinning ear-to-ear and skiing bell-to-bell with only injury holding them back.

No groomed only bluebird only skiers in my circle.  Skied in the rain yesterday morning and it was awesome.
post #40 of 59
I s'pose I'd be one of those spoiled guys.  But I usually hike, so if the snow isn't good, I don't go.  It doesn't have to be powder, but it shouldn't be crust or wind slab on top of sugar and buried depth hoar.  I can and do search some north facing stuff out, but still, not quite as reliable as groomers a week after, 'specially since all the hikers are searching that stuff out.

So, I s'pose I should go ride some lifts and groomers, but so far it's the christmas holiday so it's really crowded with out of towners and my discounted tickets are blacked out.

Not to mention, there ain't a ton of snow out there.  Trees in the resorts are swimming with sharks and many good things in the bc, including most of my favorites, aren't filled in for hikin'.  

Once it's quiet and the snow is deeper and more reliable in the bc, I'll be out a lot more, probably riding lifts when the hikin' is worthless, or spinnin' a few laps after walkin' the dogs to the top of some peak.  But, yep, truthfully, it ain't that great yet.  And I'm not a bell to bell guy anyway.

Besides, I'm probably not much of a hardcore skier snowboarder dude.  I just like hills.  There's lots to do in the hills, all of which I relish.  I like walking the dogs down to the lake, I like splitting wood, I like watching storms, I like hot toddys watching storms, I like fishing.  But mostly I like more snow, good snow, and less people.

If'n that makes me a spoiled non-hardcore sort of fella, well then, okey dokey.
post #41 of 59
what will happen when so many hard-core skiers gear up for backcountry and head to the known BC stashes that there are no fresh turns to be had? seems likely to me, and soon. And these are skiers with very low tolerance for crowds, or even other skiers.

who would hike a couple hours to ski tracked up snow? If you do it a lot, drive distance to the base is a factor, so just finding more and more remote locations to BC ski is not feasible. The places around Tahoe are getting quite well known. Skiers get up hella' early to get untracked. Will competition for good snow tempt BC hardcore skiers to ignore unstable condition warnings?

split: just the other day the skiing was nothing special, OK snow, flat light, wierd humidity, but a storm was coming in. The SW sky was really dark and wind was blowing out of there. It was fun to take a break on the mountain with a view of the storm approaching. Lots of us dig that. It's not easy to describe the feeling, but if you've had it you know.
post #42 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog View Post

 Could it be that some of the hard core have become disenchanted and moved to the fringe?

But perhaps not "disenchanted", rather, the improvement of uphill equipment makes it more readily accessible to that "hard core" crowd?

 

If it is, it also fits into the "more choices" theme. Now that bc is more accessible, it's only natural you'll see a bit of a decrease of hard core skiers inbound on iffy days. Maybe they're saving their energy (and available time) for those epic BC days?

I like your term of "renaissance skier", newfydog! 

I doubt there're fewer of them now than before. Though I admit I'm not old enough to know how many of them therer were in the "good old days". I only know there're some today.

There're also those who bike and climb on miserable conditions more suited for skiing. But I think it's got more to do with their obsession with biking/climbing than the apparent lack of appeal of skiing to that crowd. 
 

post #43 of 59
All outdoor recreation has been on the decline for a while now. Fishing, hunting, hiking, camping, national park visitation, you name it, people have been doing it less and less. So it makes sense if that is happening with skiing, too, esp. given how expensive it's become for families. 
post #44 of 59
Thanks Guys Fun reading and brings up a lot of good memories.

Move.  Over 60 stay?   Hey don't knock us old guys, some of us still ski now and then.

Dav...... BC getting rutted out by the the hordes.   You need to move away from Tahoe, or come visit N Idaho sometime.  The tahoe weekends don't ski here or whine here either.

Have times changed?               Circe 1980's, Donner Ski Ranch (Donner Summit, Lake Tahoe), Code 3 Sky Club (Fire/Police Race club northern Calif and Nev), have our own coach (Roberto Taddeo)  all day lift tic $7.00, all day ski tng  $10.00, spend the night in the bunk house  $7.00.   End of day public leavess the lodge, Club takes over bar  Pat Dowden (non drinker) bartends and we go to the wee hours.  Group usually ran from 15-35 people and boy did we have a great time skiing and etc.

End of season last year, Lookout Pass ski area, sometime in April:



LtoR:  Randy, wife Deb, Mark, Carole, John,My lovely wife standing Sandee, Van






A few locals coming down for a Moosedrool.
post #45 of 59
Pete,
I still require a big enough community to make a living, or N. Idaho would be nirvana. And you guys still have wolves. We only have coyotes.

BC crowding isn't too bad yet, I was projecting a what if.....

I don't expect the hill to myself on a Tahoe weekend, that's a given. A time to avoid.

Have I gotten to the point that I whine without knowing I'm doing it?aaaack!
post #46 of 59

Y'all need to remember, too, that skiing is just too expensive for a lot of people, especially in this tough period. A couple die-hards I know did not get full season passes this year and opted instead for pick-a-day or other passes.

Skiing is a pricey luxury that just isn't in the budget of the majoirty of families. As I said in another post a while back, the lift-served industry started down the road of pricing many people out of the sport a long time ago. Obviously, as prices for everything skiing related keeps going through the roof, the non-diehards will start to bail or just not participate as much.


 

post #47 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoMan View Post

Y'all need to remember, too, that skiing is just too expensive for a lot of people, especially in this tough period. A couple die-hards I know did not get full season passes this year and opted instead for pick-a-day or other passes.

Skiing is a pricey luxury that just isn't in the budget of the majoirty of families. As I said in another post a while back, the lift-served industry started down the road of pricing many people out of the sport a long time ago. Obviously, as prices for everything skiing related keeps going through the roof, the non-diehards will start to bail or just not participate as much.


 


Certainly agree with this.  When I learned to ski My wife, son and friend could go to Soda Springs for $2.00 tuesdays.  But even discounting eons ago.  When a family of 4 had to spend 400 dollars for a weekend of skiing participation started downgill.  Nice having all the rich or semi-rich people payingt big bucks for that 1 trip a year but now things are swinging the other way.  If snowboards hadn't come along things would even be worse for the ski areas.

Powder magazine had a good article last month.  summary:   ski areas that concentrated on skiing are doing well or ok.   Ski areas that b ecame real estate ventures are hurting.  Cited Bridger Bowl as a very sucessful ski area in that they aren't mired in debt and just run a ski area kfor skiers and not the fringe furry skier Gapers.  Lookout Pass Ski area here in N Idaho is another example of a sucessful area even in these hard economic times.


Which came first.   Ski resorts pricing themselves out of existence or the bad economy?   Are people losing interest or just don't want to spend the money on maybe a good time?
post #48 of 59
Probably a mixture of both. For the average seven-day-a-season skier, there is a point where the price won't justify the seven days and they may cut it down to three or four, or even opt-out. If you are not real gung-ho about the sport, you are not likely to give skiing a priority when it comes to budget this year, given the state of the economy, or unless you think your job is absolutely stable. Then again, this is an Olympic year so interest in skiing might be up somewhat. 

There will always be people who can afford to spend top dollar on resort skiing and the incidentals that go with it. This is the segment the marketing departments at places like Vail and Aspen target. Season pass holders don't buy a lot of stuff or sleep in the lodges. Pass revenue probably keeps the electricty on to run the lifts. The destination skier is where the real money comes into play. They are the ones who will not only pay face value for lift tickets, but will gladly fork over $20 for a wilted hotdog and watered down soda, and $300 a night for a modest place to sleep. Even the afluent pool, however, diminished with the hit the economy took. 
post #49 of 59
Dec 28, 2009

Hi Bears:

I could hug/kiss evey single one of you who has responded to this thread.  You are all soul mates.  Here in south-central Pennsylvania, with two mountains of 650 vertical and one mountain of 1000 vertical, our ski season starts usually during the Christmas/New Year Holidays.  Two reason, usually can't start earlier due to high temperature and the company which runs the mountains (all three) has a lot of "financial" initiative opening on Christmas week.  Season ends 2nd week of March.  Which gives me roughly 3 months of local skiing.  I will extend my season in early December by going to areas which are open but with probably only one or two trails open and EPIC Stowe Event.  On the spring skiing side, I will extend it two/three weeks by going north for a trip or two and going west for a final big wrap up.  So, for the last 4-5 years, I've gotten 60-70 days of skiing.  For the last 25 years, I skiied more than 30 days a year.  This season with my first day of skiing of Dec 11 at Stowe, I've already have 15 days of skiing in.  One season, I closed down seven ski areas.  Liberty, Roundtop, Whitetail, Wisp, Timberline, Hunter, Windham and Jiminy Peak.  Also at Jiminy Peak, I was on the last chair and the last skier down the mountain.

Think snow,

CP
post #50 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post

Maybe it is just me, but I can remember a time when skiers really, really looked forward to skiing.  They would wait all summer and fall for that first snowfall, and jones at the chance to get skiing as early as possible in November, and keep skiing throughout the winter.  After all, what else is there to do in the winter in Oregon? 
 

Umm, get out the spey rod and steelhead fish on the deschuttes?
post #51 of 59
You missed it Dawg!
post #52 of 59
Want to meet a group of solid hard-core skiers? Show up 2 hours early on a pow day at Kt-22 and chat up the folks in line already.  No compromise or give in any of them. Unless they are on their death bed, they are there. Brrrrrr!
Where would one find the hard-core at your mountain?
post #53 of 59
Sweet Video!.....I just got home from skiing and can't wait to hit again on Wednesday.
post #54 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete No. Idaho View Post




A few locals coming down for a Moosedrool.
 

Could you ask the one in red & the one in the blue top to please get dressed.
post #55 of 59

Are skiers becoming weenies and spoiled?


Paging Chaos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
post #56 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Posaune View Post




You're averaging less than 10,000 feet per day at Bachelor, which is covered with fast, groomed runs and has very little knarly stuff.  You average a turn every 1286 feet, so you really must be moving fast because those are LONG turns.

An easy day of groomers for someone skiing normally fast is well over 20,000 ft.  What do you do with all of your free time?

 

I hang out and enjoy myself, and the company of other fine folks.  I don't try to set any records.  The sun is great, and so is the view.  We eat lunch.  Enjoy our favorite libations, then ski some more.   And yes, I tend to make my turns really long ones!
post #57 of 59
Slider, nice video.  Don't see to many weenies up here just the same old codger powder chasers.

I am whining now, son and granddaughter were here for Xmas so of course I now have the dreaded granddaughter cold. ugh. and it is snowing outside. Double ugh.
post #58 of 59
 I grew up skiing/racing all the time.

Went to college, moved to Bend 7  years ago.  No one at my job ski'd..was hard to motivate myself to go bymyself.  But This year I have been 14 times already and loving it.  I usually only go about half the day in the morning.  I go no matter the weather even if I end up doing 2 runs and going home. (Rain or freezing rain is about the only thing I hate).

Today was awesome.
post #59 of 59
Weenies? Don't know. Been watching classic ski films from the 30's to 60's and those guys were something. Non release bindings and no ankle support on 10 to 20 pound wood skis. The metal edges were screw on and they waxed by rubbing the wax in with their palm. No groomed snow or snow making. Was really something.
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