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The Fall Line Turn.

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
There are days when I get off the lift at my home mountain, go right into a field of bumps to a narrow catwalk to another field of bumps that go right to the bottom of the chair. There are many skiers here on this forum that will spend the whole day skiing steep chutes and trees. In other words, many skiers are making 97% of their turns in the fall line. Makes you either imagine yourself doing them if you can, or thinking about other skiers doing them and striving for those turns if you can't.
Alas, friends, ye who have perfected your fall line movement patterns through billions of bumps, trillions of trees, scads of chutes, copius quantities of catwalk, and oodles of off piste adventures. Ye the uninitiated to this dance who see the double black diamond daredevils smoothly descending the areas of the mountain that intimidate yet inspire you. And who know somehow, that this way of skiing, is the key to unlocking the cage of crowded intermediate boulevards that you are trapped in. Alas, alas, alas.
They are defensive turns. Done purely to control speed. No change of direction. It is skiing the fastest possible line slowly. Might as well sideslip all the way down, like a pussy snowboarder. You bunch of PUSSIES! You intermediates, forget about the double blacks. They are for defensive turning, blocking pole plant making, downstemming, counter rotating, shovel pressuing, sadly deluded thinking they are level 9 COWARDS!! You don't want to ski that way, do you? Puhleeeze.
post #2 of 25
I think you have it almost totally wrong.

To get off the intermediate groomed McSkiing and off-piste onto the less crowded and more interesting parts of the mountain, all you have to do is execute a basic carved turn instead of a skidded one. With a nice rounded controlled low speed turn, you can ski pretty much the entire mountain. Sure, you won't be worth much in tight chutes or in the biggest of mogul fields but you won't struggle in powder, trees, ice, medium bumps or medium steeps. I'm thinking of the times I've taken the Salomon Pilot 10 for a spin. It pretty much forces you to ski that rounded turn style and it really didn't prevent me from skiing much of anything.
post #3 of 25
er......... bad day Miles? You can hit the beach tomorrow... drink some of Nappas finest....lots of fun things!

No bad karma on the weekends.....?
post #4 of 25
Nice explaination of CM movement down the hill. So many people ski with their feet and forget to deal with downward CM movement.

It is quite the breakthrough to get a skier to realize this and smoothly flow down a line through crud, ice, cord, powder mix that we get in the East.

Skiing is your body having fun on the hill, not just your feet. Move the body downhill, and the rest of you will enjoy it.
post #5 of 25
>>It is quite the breakthrough to get a skier to realize this and smoothly flow down a line through crud, ice, cord, powder mix that we get in the East.<<

Having worked full time on my skis both East and West -- let me just point out that though the overall conditions are different in different areas . . . I've skied through just as many wild and quickly changing snow conditions out west as out east. Yes the east has some snow conditions rarely seen out west . . . and the west likewise has conditions rarely seen out east.

Attaching machismo to geography is generally a silly proposition at best, fabulous skiers come from every part of the world . . . except Texas! <FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Todd Murchison (edited September 07, 2001).]</FONT>
post #6 of 25
Todd. You're close, there is one from San Antonio, TX. We call him "Gristle" and he rips. His technique is a little lacking in pow (he tries to muscle it) but his bumps and carving pretty much rule. I think he learned to ski in Wolf Creek and got good in college with me in Wyoming. It's as confusing to me as anyone. I was always under the impression that Yahoos were genetically predisposed to sucking at skiing. (tongue firmly planted in cheek)

Spag's quote of the day:
"Psychos? They were Vampires! Do you understand? Vampires! Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them! I don't give a #### how crazy they are!"
- George Clooney in "From Dusk Till Dawn" -
post #7 of 25
I actually know at least 4 level III's who were not only borne there but grew up there. Of course, Jim Isham is originally from Lubbock...don't know about him. I don't think he tell anyone. The others for sure rip! Just wish they'd quit spittin' that sh*t on the runs!!!

Hey, Spag...remember that guy? "...tell you what...I's flyin!" I haven't had a uncontrollable group laugh like that in a while...it wasn't even that funny...just kept repeatin it!
post #8 of 25
Oh I know - its just traditional for mountain boys to bash on Texas

Now its more in vogue to bash on Californians . . . and since all them of them moving to CO these days seem to either be right wing bible thumpers or new age dorks incapable of critical thinking, they are making the Texans look good now!

(Ducking and running)
post #9 of 25
As I am temporarily domiciled on the left coast and yearn for my NM casa, I realize the people I am dealing with here are buying up everything there.
I do miss the dumb sweet naivity of your average texan in comparison. Funny thing about the folks in SoCal...they think they live in paradise....need to keep it that way.
post #10 of 25
"I tell you what!"
"Yeah? What?"

I remember that! Wasn't that the drive from hell back from Telluride? I still think we were the only people on the road past Chama. I'm convinced that I'm cursed when it comes to road trips.

Spag's quote of the day:
"...man, today you should have seen me 'n Squirrel today, at school today."
- Drugs Delaney in "Outside Providence" -
post #11 of 25
I'm going to have to start watching those trees and rocks moving out of my was as I skid down the hill with no change in direction. And all these years I thought I was going around the trees.

If only I could be PSIA level 3 certified then I would know how to ski. Until then I'll have to watch those trees more carefully.

That must be what tree wells are from, as the trees move out of my way they push the snow aside. Another mystery solved.

------------------
What price freedom
dirt is my rug
well I sleep like a baby
with the snakes and the bugs
<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by cold water (edited September 08, 2001).]</FONT>
post #12 of 25
Bob. Is that the shortest post you've ever registered?
post #13 of 25
Yep, they do indeed think of SoCa as the center of all civilization Robin. I've noticed many that moved to CO then spend a great deal of time bragging about how great CA is, always leading me then to the obvious questions "so if its so great . . . . . why did you leave?"
post #14 of 25
I would have to disagree with Miles B. I cannot think of any time where I've stood atop a steep, narrow, hairy, bumped up, nasty, tree filled, rocky, icy, muddy, gnarly shot where I've thought about being defensive.

An offensive mindset is the only way I approach terrain of this sort. Make this turn, hop that rock, reach for the soft stuff over there, take the zipper line, set up for the air, explode out of the jump turn.
ski between the trees....visualize the line and make it happen....Is this defensive?

I'm sure you can make a case for being defensive. Must survive this run, slip through this chute, slow down, watch out, how am I going to get out of here? If you have an intermediate skier coming into this terrain, they may well be skiing above their ability, defensive in appearance, but I can guarantee you they are on the offensive....

For me defensive skiing lives and breathes on the intermediate corduroy swath.
post #15 of 25
Exit 154, in Miles defense, a lot of maneuvers in the steeps are defensive. You can be aggressive in a line, but hold a defensive body position. (ie: blocking pole plants) I see a ton of that out there. I also don't think that's necessarily a bad thing... for the record.

Now it's my turn to take a shot at Miles. I think your position that steeps are only for defensive turning is waaaaaaaaay off. The principles of skiing are universal to terrain. To say that I couldn't make the same turn on a green slope as I can flashing a steep chute is simply wrong. To say that I could do it every time is also wrong! There are just too many other variables on a steep, bumpy, icy, rocky, nasty, chute. Three smooth turns, ROCK! CHECK! 15 smooth turns, AIR! HOOK! 5 smooth turns, CRASH! TUMBLE! Pick up all your crap and laugh it off.

Given, the majority of the "level 9" skiers out there are throwing windshield wipers, but they don't HAVE to be. Nor will most of them ever truly figure it out. So to all those who want to really improve, improve on the blues and greens... then take what you've learned to the blacks... then take it a little bigger, and a little faster.(if you're into that kind of thing) That way Miles won't be so offended by our wimpy turns! (wink, wink, elbow, elbow)
post #16 of 25
Pierre. I think you failed to notice that "level 9" was in quotes. they run more in the level 6 range. Beauty try, Ace. See ya on the next post! (big toothy grin)
post #17 of 25
Pierre-eh we all know the only "level" nine skiers out there are you instructors who have passed the level three certification process. I do feel bad for those rippers who drop 10' into a 40+ degree chute pop a few quick turns to set themselves up for an air over some rocks then bank some high speed fat turns till they run out of slope. If they only knew the truth. The true expert skiers are over on the groomers "digging trenches", "laying RR tracks", or leaving "pencil lines" with their super carvers. If only I could spend a lot of money getting trained by the people who give the test to pass the test and get "pinned". You guys are so lucky to have the opportunity to get certified.




------------------
What price freedom
dirt is my rug
well I sleep like a baby
with the snakes and the bugs
post #18 of 25
er.............. milesb!!! are you out there?

Ain't that just like him to start a rant and then get outa Dodge?
post #19 of 25
Cold,

The assertion that was made that somehow only full-cert instructors think they are level 9 is obviously foolish. However it is equally foolish to infer that there are not any certified instructors who can rip very hard as well. Instructors definately run the gamut from 'cruise specialists' that might not impress you, to top flight racers and extremists who can lay trench in circles around you.

Making such broad generalizations of 'level III instructors' (or any group) makes one sound foolish.
post #20 of 25
cold water,

Your posts seem to show some anger at instructors in general. Why don't you open a thread and tell everyone what really bugs you.
post #21 of 25
Fracas anyone?
post #22 of 25
"The assertion that was made that somehow only full-cert instructors think
they are level 9 is obviously foolish" Yes I agree, especially since many
full certs realize they are lacking in skills to be "level 9" skiers.

"However it is equally foolish to infer that there are not any certified
instructors who can rip very hard as well." Yes I agree and have skied with
certifiable instructors who obviously rip.

"to top flight racers and extremists who can lay trench in circles around
you. " Why would they want to do that? Only my hero Gravity would or could
do that. And who are these top flight racers and extremists? Herman Maier?
Who has been bashed on this forum for using his power when skiing or the
bozos in powder mag banking turns. Can you lay tenches around yourself?


"Making such broad generalizations of 'level III instructors' (or any group)
makes one sound foolish." I agree and did not make any broad generalizations
about the skiing ability of instructors as a group except that they are
the only true expert skiers as expert skier has been defined on this forum. Why would you take offense at that? Can't get full cert?

Apparently you seem to think that most instructors are weenies and that
they can't rip. I know better, but the fact remains that unless you lay
pencils, carve trains, are a full cert, and talk the talk you are not a level nine skier
nor are you a true expert.

I still pity the poor rippers pushing the envelope
who don't follow Bob's rules of skiing( 60% on groomers, 30% on difficult
runs, and 10% on terrain they are not comfortable on, or some similar ratio).
Wasting all that time having fun and pushing the limits instead of perfecting
their carving technique on pristine groomed slopes that do not exist in
the wild. I pity them for not knowing the true mechanics of skiing or
what they are actually doing.

Best Regards,

Cold Water
post #23 of 25
" "Level 9" as we instructors use it here is a term developed and defined by PSIA"

Can an instructor who has "full Cert" demonstrate all the movements...... to be a level 9 (a term developed and defined by PSIA) skier?

In previous discussions on what is an expert skier it was stated that you had to know the mechanics... IE talk the talk to be an expert. Typically only instructors or coaches truly understand the mechanics.
I am sorry I equated "level 9" with expert.

You have pointed out many many times that there are very few "level 9" (a term developed and defined by PSIA, hey is that copy righted?) skiers. I agree with your assesment.

If I want to assure myself that I demonstrate all the movements required to be a level 9 skier I will try to get full cert.

Bob, have I stated that I demonstrate level 9 movements? Have I stated that I want to be a level 9 skier (a term developed and defined by PSIA?

Small Child? Bob it's not like you to insult people. What's small childish about the posts? My agreement with your assesment of skiers?

Bob, I am sorry that I have pained you.

Best Regards

Cold Water
post #24 of 25
>>If I want to assure myself that I demonstrate all the movements required to be a level 9 skier I will try to get full cert. <<

Well, its about a lot more than movements. Its also about being friendly, patient and believe it not - open to change.
post #25 of 25
Thread Starter 
Hey guys, it was a goof on Bob Barnes' "offensive vs. defensive movements" and "skiing the slow line fast" statements.
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