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AC50s vs Gotamas

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
I'm looking to get a new set of skis to replace my old Volkl Carver v2s (old I know) and its come down to these two. I'm a pretty advanced skier, 5'8 150 pounds and I generally like the steep groomers. Rosi's Run is pretty much my ideal run for you Copper heads out there. All of this has started me looking at the AC50s, but after looking at all the reviews and how much everyone loves the Goats I'm starting to wonder. I have noticed in the past few years I have been wanting a better powder ski, but pretty much anything these days is gong to be an upgrade from my old narrows. I am starting to go more toward the powder, and the semi-twin tip of the Goats is appealing for when I want to hurt myself (aka small stints in the terrain park). Also I gotta say the $300 difference might be a factor, and you gotta love how those Goats look. Anyone out there own both of these, or just have some thoughts?
post #2 of 29
Not sure how you came up with those two unless you were just researching Volkls. IAC, given your criteria, neither is a great choice. The AC-50 is a very good "giant carver" meaning it is a wider bodied ski that is best on hard snow. As such, it would be great for your steeper groomers but less than optimal in powder, bumps or the park.

If you are looking at 2009 Goats or earlier, then you are on to something. That was a very versatile ski. The 2010 Gotama is not nearly as versatile as the older versions. Although it is better than the older Goat in powder, it is worse at just about everything else.

BTW....the price difference between the AC-50 and the Gotama is largely b/c the Goat does not come with bindings. Add ~~ $250 for a good high end binder and they are pretty close.

IMO, the best ski with the Volkl nameplate on it for your needs is the Bridge. This is (IMO again) Volkls best all mountain ski. Plus as a bonus, it is cleverly disguised as a twin tip. The Bridge is better than the Gotama at everything except powder and better than the AC-50 at everything except super hard snow.

SJ
post #3 of 29

Aussie,

 

      Sorry about the early send.  I would also recomend the new Dynastar Sultan 85 in around the 17 2 length.  I am your size and a level uper 7 skier and have found them to perform great in all conditions.  I ski in Alaska at the hard pack at Ayeska but go to Alta for a cupple of weeks every year.  This year I will be bringing the Sultans and my old Gotamas to provide a wide range of snow conditions.  Enjoy, and love the snow.

Tim

post #4 of 29
 There really is no comparison.

The Gotamas is a powder ski that can handle the groomers. 

The AC50 is a hard snow ski that you can take anywhere other than powder. (Especially if you have ever ridden a rockerd powder ski)

The 2010 Gotamas tips chatter like crazy at speed over 50 on hard snow and the AC50 tips dive in tracked up powder.

If you are skiing 85% groomers, like to go FAST, and have very good technique,  the AC50.

PS, I have ridden both skis and love them both!!!!!

In my experience, there really is no one quiver ski unless enough time has gone by that you forgot what a specialized ski feels like in it's element.
post #5 of 29
I go back to the first response on a personal level,The Bridge is the better choice IMO.I originally got them as sort of a play ski for the bumps,trees and maybe a little fresh.I have skied all over trying to find somewhere that they are bad at and truthfully it hasn't happened yet. Truly a wonderful all mountain twin tip that rocks all conditions. I am sure that many skis can fit this bill,I am just speaking about one that I own personally.Anyone else's opinions would certainly be welcome to add to this.
post #6 of 29
Aussie151, I have 2010 Gotamas (186) and 170 Volkl AC4 which is the ski prior to the AC50.  On hard and steep the AC is a better ski, no question.  More stable and faster edge to edge.  I ski in the east with heavier powder and it is fine (ok) there. It is OK on crud, but a little "bouncy".   But if you want to do tight turns or big turns on very hard snow it is clearly better than the Gotoma.

The gotama is better in chopped up stuff, powder, and "packed powder".  You can make just as tight of turns on the hard stuff, but it is not as fun as the AC.  However as soon as you see soft, chop, bumps, or crud the Gotama wins hands down.  

If I had to have only one I would choose the Gotama.  It is really versitle.  However if I was looking for a hard, hard pack ski the AC is a better choice.   
post #7 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuscopd View Post

 There really is no comparison.

The Gotamas is a powder ski that can handle the groomers. 

The AC50 is a hard snow ski that you can take anywhere other than powder. (Especially if you have ever ridden a rockerd powder ski)

The 2010 Gotamas tips chatter like crazy at speed over 50 on hard snow and the AC50 tips dive in tracked up powder.

If you are skiing 85% groomers, like to go FAST, and have very good technique,  the AC50.

PS, I have ridden both skis and love them both!!!!!

In my experience, there really is no one quiver ski unless enough time has gone by that you forgot what a specialized ski feels like in it's element.


 
Negative, the 50 does just fine in powder. Granted not as well as a bridge or goat but, fine esp. for those not inclined to go real fat. I own all three, the goat is the white model and is money on soft snow , the bridge is best when it gets tracked up and the 50 is a ski you could run on all day if you wanted and really tear-up the groom if you are so inclined. Its ability to stay high in deep powder is uncanny. I'd have a tough time choosing between the bridge and the 50 if i had to but, I'd probably take the 50 as it is more powerful.
post #8 of 29
I just took my Bridges out for a wonderful two day trip to Sunday River.  Groomers(even skied off and icy), trees,bumps,glades,performed very very well in all.The AC50 may handle the icy stuff a little better but IMO the Bridge will offer more variety for the money.A little more versatility if you will.Just ask yourself the percentage of the time you spend on each terrain.Overall you cannot go wrong with either ski.You mentioned about going over 50 mph,the AC50 mhas Titanium topsheet and will be stiffer to handle this better,however, the Bridge is still very sturdy and can be pushed pretty far itself but is much easier to tame. Hope this helps
post #9 of 29
 I thought that the AC4 was terrible in the bumps and powder. If you are looking for a more off piste ski, the Gotama is great. For a mix, maybe the Mantra or Bridge. The Mantra is not that great in powder or bumps, but I find them a lot better than the AC4 (AC50).
post #10 of 29
This was posted before XMAS hopefully this guy found his skis. I think either of the skis he was considering would be horrible a one ski quivers for him to ski mostly groomers and powder so hopefully he found something else.
post #11 of 29
I have rode both the AC50 and the Gotamas in powder. There really is no comparison. 

This could just be me, but the ac50 does not float and takes more work that the Gotamas.

But, like you said, I really like to go fast so it is a preference thing. I know guys who prefer there skinny skis on powder days but if you want to go really fast and lay down turns like your on a groomer, a fatter reverse-cambered ski is the ticket.




Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxammo View Post



Negative, the 50 does just fine in powder. Granted not as well as a bridge or goat but, fine esp. for those not inclined to go real fat. I own all three, the goat is the white model and is money on soft snow , the bridge is best when it gets tracked up and the 50 is a ski you could run on all day if you wanted and really tear-up the groom if you are so inclined. Its ability to stay high in deep powder is uncanny. I'd have a tough time choosing between the bridge and the 50 if i had to but, I'd probably take the 50 as it is more powerful.
 
post #12 of 29
Tromano  ......
post #13 of 29
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Mantra.  It's a compromise of both.  Built to give you a racy feely, but wide enough for pow.
post #14 of 29
Jim, just want a clarification: pre-2010 Goats (non-rocker) are good at everything (from readings here on Epic).  2010 Goats (rocker) are great in powder, but suffer on harder snow/groomed.  Is it just the rocker that have caused the problem or have they changed the construction on the 2010 to deteriorate the hard snow performance?
post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplemind View Post

Jim, just want a clarification: pre-2010 Goats (non-rocker) are good at everything (from readings here on Epic).  2010 Goats (rocker) are great in powder, but suffer on harder snow/groomed.  Is it just the rocker that have caused the problem or have they changed the construction on the 2010 to deteriorate the hard snow performance?

Correct, the older Gotamas are as versatile as anyone could reasonably expect a 105mm twin tip ski to be. If a conventional feeling ski is the goal, then the newer ones are far less so. Volkl could have done something like flat camber or tip rise only and not given up much. Even a shallow tip and tail rise with conventional camber underfoot would not have given up much more. Naturally, if you don't mind the rather vague feel, then the new ski is fine. Keep in mind though that this is my opinion and while it is shared by dozens of my customers who have owned or skied both, it is not universal. A few skiers are all drooley lipped over the new Gotama. Many however are not including a fair number that worship at the Volkl altar..

SJ
post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

 A few skiers are all drooley lipped over the new Gotama. Many however are not including a fair number that worship at the Volkl altar..

SJ

 

Love that one Jim!

What are you recommending in a new ski (2009-2010) that ski's like the older Goats?

.
post #17 of 29
I think the Line P-100 and Sollie Shogun are right there and maybe the K2 Sidestash.

SJ
post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

Correct, the older Gotamas are as versatile as anyone could reasonably expect a 105mm twin tip ski to be. If a conventional feeling ski is the goal, then the newer ones are far less so.
Volkl could have done something like flat camber or tip rise only and not given up much. Even a shallow tip and tail rise with conventional camber underfoot would not have given up much more.
Naturally, if you don't mind the rather vague feel, then the new ski is fine. Keep in mind though that this is my opinion and while it is shared by dozens of my customers who have owned or skied both, it is not universal. A few skiers are all drooley lipped over the new Gotama. Many however are not including a fair number that worship at the Volkl altar..

SJ
 
Love the "drooley lipped" phrase.
Let's really heat things up and merge a Goat thread with a helmet thread.
post #19 of 29
 hey SJ,

i was also thinking of the 2010 Goats as a second ski for powder. Every time i try and demo a pair, they are all rented out so i have not actually tried them. I currently own a pair of Watea 84 (which i bought from you and i love). they are my super duper one quiver ski but two weeks ago with that big dump in Tahoe, it made me realize they are no match for the deep stuff. if not the goat then what powder ski would you recommend to compliment the Watea?

i am a 6' 2" 255lb, intermediate to advanced. I ski Tahoe almost exclusively. i just jacked up my back so i have some time to do a little research on what ever directions you point me in. thanks in advance.
post #20 of 29
I just put a pair of 2010 Gotama's 178 in my quiver as powder ski's.  Guess you could say I am drooly lipped over the Goats.  I am not much of an expert, but I ski almost anywhere on the mountain I am 53, 6' tall, overweight (280), and out of shape, so I want a ski that does not fight you.  Just picked them up and have spent 3 days on them.  Started on open slopes with 18" of new powder, slowly moved deeper into the trees as the day progressed and the powder got eaten.  I love the responsiveness in the trees.  The second day I ski'd them in the morning and loved the way they handled the chop and junk.  Changed at noon to my K2 Outlaws and noticed a big difference, the Goats handle the heavy junk much easier. 
post #21 of 29
I own the 2009 Bridge...the 2008 Got and demoed the 2010 Got in 2 feet of POW last weekend.  6 foot 3" 185 lbs., fairly advanced skier...38 years of age.

The Bridge is the best all mtn. ski I have ever owned.  Can powerfully carve soft groomers...handle a fair amount of POW until it gets overmatched, and is very nice in the bumps.  If I had to chose 1 ski today for the rest of my life...I would pick the Bridge.  It does not do any 1 thing GREAT...but it does all things VERY WELL.   Honestly...it is a fantastic ski.  

I LOVE my 2008 Gots.  They revolutionized POW skiing for me and I couldn't believe how versatile they are.  There are certainly pow skis that float better than the Got but most skis that are better aren't nearly as good in all other conditions as the older Got.  Afer skiing the new Gots (186) this past weekend in fairly deep POW...I was impressed by their float in the soft stuff.  However, they can't compare to the old Gots on the groomers.  The tips flap and the rockered tail feels squishy.  I was very dissappointed.  I may seek out a pair of 2009 Gots in the 190 length and hold onto them for a long time.  Alternatively, I may check out the K2 Obsethed to see if that is as good as they hype.  I also rode the Salomon Shogun (191)and found its performance very unsatisfying on the groomers.  Thought that is not its intended purpose, it is significantly less stable than the old Got.
post #22 of 29
I ski the East and have been on the Mantra, AC50s and Bridges. Guess I will have to try the Goats, based on what everyone is saying. Volkls grip is terrific for the Easter hardpack as you all know, but I;d say the Mantra was easily best in the pow (for what we get and take that with a grain of salt!). I was expecting the AC50s to be a strong all around ski - excellent on the groomers and carving long GS at high speed as well, but just to strong/stiff to take in the bumps. Maybe that's because I am 40 ish! 

Opimian - you have Watea 84s. try the 101s! they're fantastic and way more versatile than I had expected. I took out the 182 - had a blast. hardpack, ice and 4-6 inches of fresh snow (ok West folks, you can stop laughing). really a good ski and not overpowering. Not vastly different sidecut than the Mantra, but more forgiving  and I could actually work with them in the mogul fields. Probably not as quick as the 84s, but surprisingly good for a 100+ waist. I couldnt get my hands on the 94.
post #23 of 29

Does anyone know of plans to introduce a new line of Gotama's for next season?

post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jando5 View Post

Does anyone know of plans to introduce a new line of Gotama's for next season?


Same great ski for next year, graphics are slightly different. 

post #25 of 29

I actually rented the mantras, gotamas, ac30, blizzard 8.1, and the obsethed all over a 4 day weekend at mammoth. 

The Gotamas are completely different than any ski I have ever skied.  While I did not test them out in fresh powder, I did ski on the from 12 - close all 4 days on steep slush conditions, (camped out on chair 23).   In a nut shell, they were really fun, so much that I returned to get them from the demo shop every day.    Saturday there was a about 8 inches of left over powder from Friday which was turning very thick by days end and the Gotamas tore it up.   Just a half hour earlier I was starting to get bogged down with the ac30's sinking in a little too deep in spots and just making me work a little harder.  But with the Gotamas they just blasted through everything and I was ripping big GS turns at twice the speed.   I hucked the cornus several times with a lot speed, (usually in those conditions I would land and expect one of my skis to sink and fight for the landing) but with the Goats, I just stomped it and ripped down like it was a groomer, laughing the whole time....

I must admit that when I first put them on and road up the lift I was worried, in part because of all the reviews that I had read.  But It really only took a few turns to figure them out and then the rest of the day to keep turning up the speed.    They are big, but they turn very easy,  I would like to get a pair for powder.     (I did take them on some real tight bumps and was a rockstar for about 10 turns, and then ate it soo..  not for tight bumps but I'm sure with enough days on them you could figure it out).     

The obsethed was okay It was center mounted and frankly I just didn't like the extra tail length, so I really can't give a real review on something that was not set up for me.    So I went down to the shop and swapped it out for the Gotamas. 

 

post #26 of 29

PS,  the Gotama was fine on the groomers because it was spring conditions, but who cares....  I had zero problems with them at speed on the flats, (again spring conditions so there was no hard pack).   

post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

I think the Line P-100 and Sollie Shogun are right there and maybe the K2 Sidestash.

SJ


+1 for the Shoguns. Everyone I talked to last season with new Gotama's complained about the groomers. The Shoguns rip the groomers and the pow.

post #28 of 29

I'll add a few more data points from the perspective of a PNW skier who avoids groomers.

 

Pow: '10 Line EP Pros (have). I really enjoy them, but haven't skied on other 120mm+ skis. Before I got the EPPs, '08 Gotamas (have) were my pow ski. Now if there's 6"+, I'm on EPPs no second thoughts.

 

Crud: '08 Gotamas (have). Gotamas rule the crud if you just let them run and do all the work.

 

Steep+deep+heavy crud+trees: in this one particular type of crud, I prefer the EPPs over the Gotamas. Rocker+flexiness is a little more forgiving, easier to rip a "panic" turn or stop.

 

 

Corn or a few inches: Bridges (had), Line Chronic Kryptonites (have), Obsetheds (demo'd). Liked them all. The Obsetheds felt a little hooky on the groomers, but I think it was how they were tuned (razor sharp tip to tail).

post #29 of 29
Had 25 days on the 09 Gotamas, and enjoyed all but 3 runs during that time. No fun on frozen chicken heads caused by tracked spring corn which had hardened solid overnight. The 170cm mounted true center are plenty stabile for 190 lbs / 6 foot. Ultra quick in the bumps and trees. The rocker makes them the very best for crud and fresh - especially if the fresh is heavy. Beat the others to the bottom on all but groomer days. I skied boiler plate bumps with them when some of the NSP guys were testing for the Certified test. Yes the forebody was soft - but the edge to edge hold was more tenacious than all but one other pair of skis (Atomic carvers). Huge improvement over my K2 Coombas, Atomic Sugar Daddys and various carving skis, considering the grand spectrum of versatility. A carving ski will trump the Gotamas on icy marked runs. In those conditions one notes the additional work required to go from edge to edge on fat skis. The rocker will also delay progress when trying to beat the others down to the lift. The '10 Gotamas (as previously reported) are the identical animal, different skin. An excellent 99% all around ski.
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