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ROCKERED might mean LONGER - Page 2

post #31 of 38
Thread Starter 
Variable snow=difficult condition, ski should mitigate issues of deflection, flap, chatter, tip dive, hooking up.

Nice, deep powder= easy, hero conditions, ski really doesn't have to cover your sorry butt. wider, softer should do.

So comments that state that rocker is good in variable (chop, crud, mank, etc) are interesting. I thought it was more a heli, deep perfect pow ski that we have glommed onto for resort skiing similar conditions for two hours in the morning. tell us more.
post #32 of 38
If it's "perfect powder" I'll take the Sanouks. I got the Praxis Powders for weird powder (heavy or wind affect or ridiculously super deep where the huge width underfoot prevents you from getting bogged down).
post #33 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post

If it's "perfect powder" I'll take the Sanouks. I got the Praxis Powders for weird powder (heavy or wind affect or ridiculously super deep where the huge width underfoot prevents you from getting bogged down).
Right on! and brings up a good point. You get into some low-angle deep, heavy powder on 70mm skis and you are in for a tough hike out. If you're on a mountain you know well, this can be prevented by sellecting a consistently steep line. We do this all the time.  But for a tourist out exploring, getting stuck can happen.
post #34 of 38
Quote:

So comments that state that rocker is good in variable (chop, crud, mank, etc) are interesting.

Interesting to say the least. I've skied on mebbe 15 different sorta rockerished combinations in the last year+ and for my tastes, don't find this to be the case. However, I do draw a distinction between "rocker" which I perceive to be full continuous (or at least tip and tail).......and tip rise only. While tip rise only is not the magic bullet in deep stuff that the other categories are, it seems to hold up better in the variable crap on the day after. Sometime this year, I'm going to take out a tip only ski and go head to head with a proven traditional ski in some choppy conditions and see which I like the best. I've already done this once at last years trade fair at Mammoth but I want to repeat the test and just focus on a couple of similar skis.

SJ
post #35 of 38
SJ: On certain aspects conditions were about right for that test at Alpine yesterday. Protected areas are still skiing great.  Just saying....

I think someone's opinion on rockered tip on chop, crud will depend if they like the ski to bulldozer through it (like a Rossi Squad or raceroom LP) or rise up over the snow.    The 1st time I took my Lhasa Pows on a cut up run back to the lift, I was little surprised by the tip going over instead of through the piles of snow.   My 08/09 Katana would have cut through the piles more and my 05/06 LP would have smoothed everything right out.
post #36 of 38
B:

Yeah...I know, but the store is so busy, I can't get out until after the first. Even then we're starting some private intros, that week so I dunno when I can get this done. One primary motivation is deciding on a possible new proprietary ski design to be done for us, by Praxis. We are doing much of Keith's finish work now so this is great opportunity for us to develop something like a "PraxHaus Promodel" or somesuch deal. We are carrying some existing Praxis models now, but it might be kewl to have something special for our established customers.

IAC; opinions on this deal are like earlobes, ever'body is gonna have at least one mebbe two. For sure, the ski(s) one chooses will have a bearing. When I did this last year, I ran 10-12 skis in rapid fire in a great mix of good and notsogood conditions at Mammoth. I reached some conclusions of course but I wasn't always able to follow an apple with an apple. This time around, my current plan is to take an established ski like the current LP for instance and test it against other roughly similar types. One possibility would be to test the LP against the K2 Hardside and the Solly Shogun. Both of those are tip only skis and are firm enough to be at least in the flex ballpark with the LP. I've mentioned to a few folks that an LP/184 clone with tip only might be a worthwhile taget. But.......the LP is being replaced next year by something with some rockah, (tip only I think) so naturally, it doesn't make a whole bunch of sense to compete with that ski since (I suspect) Dynastar can build an LP better than anybody else.

However, K2 for example is going to try to change the playing field by marketing the concept that rocker is the new paradigm for ski choice (as in....you're gonna get rocker whether you want it or not...........but how much??) They could probably market ice cubes to Eskimos so there will be notice taken. How much notice remains to be seen.

But what if................K2's new 85mm (ish) ski with "groomer rocker" gets some market impact? I know it's coming but don't know how good the ski will be. It may be a game changer but if it's built more or less like the current stuff, then it may or may not be as good as it could be. If we were to look at that and say...."well, OK, fine......but it could be better". We could get with Kieth and come up with a ski in a few weeks that might hit a different target than what the K2 offers.

And so it goes........

SJ
post #37 of 38
As much as you might think the rocker ski will get all flappy, its not always the case.


I suggest trying the Salomon Shogun for the more all mountain style rocker.  It has a bamboo core and a nice front rocker on it.  I was able to ski high speeds on the icy groomers and still hold an edge.  I also skied them on 49inches at wolf creek a few weeks ago.

Any rocker ski will not be your perfect speed groomer ski, and they shouldn't be. But I would say crud, powder bumps, other variable conditions you will like these better than a something like a mantra or wider camber ski.

Currently I'm waiting for my jimi 110's.  So far this winter has been more of a year for skinnier ski's (recon, ar6).
post #38 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormDay View Post

SJ: On certain aspects conditions were about right for that test at Alpine yesterday. Protected areas are still skiing great.  Just saying....

I think someone's opinion on rockered tip on chop, crud will depend if they like the ski to bulldozer through it (like a Rossi Squad or raceroom LP) or rise up over the snow.    The 1st time I took my Lhasa Pows on a cut up run back to the lift, I was little surprised by the tip going over instead of through the piles of snow.   My 08/09 Katana would have cut through the piles more and my 05/06 LP would have smoothed everything right out.
 


The Squad and the Legend Pro are stiff skis. And yet, stiffness is not a simple characteristic in a ski. It's not as simple as width or length. Some models have stiffness combined with dampening. Some stiff skis have a whole lot of rebound and pop built into the stiffness. And some skis are just stiff. I guess the word plank comes to mind. Crafting qualities into a stiff ski that make it ski well is a subtle art requiring a lot of experience. Probably like crafting a deep red Pinot. Strong but tempered with some of this and a little of that.
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