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Your thoughts on falling. - Page 2

post #31 of 69
It usually doesn't hurt when I fall because of the snow I seek, and I have yet to crash into a tree. 
also, if anyone really wants to learn how to fall, I highly recommend picking up water skiing.  I have learned more about contorting my body in the air from crashing on water at 35 mph than from anything else.  Water does move, but it certainly gives you a LOT of feedback when you fall incorrectly.  Falling properly on water is fun.  Falling improperly hurts like a bitch.
post #32 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post


Almost falling and trying to recover is what pops acls.  When you've lost it, the best course of action is to set it down under your own terms don't try to fight it.
 
Absolutely correct!  There is a "point of no return" where trying to recover does more harm than good.  It's more that butterflies flutter feeling of "whoa, I got away with that one" that I'm referring to.  That gets my adrenaline pumping!
post #33 of 69
Your view of falling is relative to your age. An acceptable risk (the exact same fall) at 22 is foolish at 62. Becoming your Orthopedic Doc's best customer and missing a ski and golf season or two will also change your outlook on falling. Loss of income is also an issue if you have a family. I do put myself in challenging situations where I may fall but I try to keep those at a speed where serious injury is unlikely if when do.
At age 62 I see a few rag dolls each season and I guarantee you it impacts my skiing for several days. I know If I were to fall like that it would likely end my skiing and maybe my golfing too. I do not choose to take that risk.
post #34 of 69
I have two thoughts about falling:

1. Ski under control at all times, so you're less likely to have a fall, but ...
2. If you think you're about to fall, Don't fight it; sit down!!!! 

Simple rules to live by and to avoid your friendly local orthopedic surgeon's office.
post #35 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveturner View Post

Your view of falling is relative to your age. An acceptable risk (the exact same fall) at 22 is foolish at 62. Becoming your Orthopedic Doc's best customer and missing a ski and golf season or two will also change your outlook on falling. Loss of income is also an issue if you have a family. I do put myself in challenging situations where I may fall but I try to keep those at a speed where serious injury is unlikely if when do.
At age 62 I see a few rag dolls each season and I guarantee you it impacts my skiing for several days. I know If I were to fall like that it would likely end my skiing and maybe my golfing too. I do not choose to take that risk.

you have never skied with Bob Peters have you? 
post #36 of 69
I've never had the pleasure of skiing with Bob but I doubt that he pushes as hard these days as he did when he was 22. Granted he still skis at a high level but relatively speaking, I'm betting it isn't like when he was 22.
post #37 of 69
I fall probably about once every time I ski. Usually it is something silly where I almost stop and then glide a little backwards to look back up the mountain for my kids if I have passed them. If I do go down it is usually pretty much just tipping over and my guys get huge entertainment out of it. The other time is usually after lunch and I still think I am 21 and hit a bumped up crud run with a little too much aggression. If this occurs I do one of 2 things. Remember that I don't have the stamina I did 20 years ago and tone it down a little or pop out of the bindings and go to the bar. Both solutions work out pretty well.
post #38 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post





I dont adhere to the beer rule at all. I took a huge beater infront of the entire ski school underneath wilbere at the bird one day. I was with some REALLY good french 16-18year olds and we were trying to 360 cat tracks into powder. The one time I didnt land I didnt notice there was clinic going on. I got tons of shit for it since like 20 people saw me. I told them who ever wanted the beer had to do a 360 off the cat track. since most of them were the 'typical" lame instructors only 2 of them ever did. 

I hate this status quo and do everything in my power to fight against the typical stick up your ass ski instructor skiing. Its doesnt mean skiing bad, its just means dont fear falling and and dont ski at 2 mph with a stick up your ass.
 

Where I taught the halfpipe was right in front of the ski school. Other instructors were always calling beer on me for falling in the pipe. I would have gladly bought beer if any of them could have gone into the pipe and landed the tricks I was trying. I never bought beer and they stopped trying to get me to after the first season.

Falling most often occurs when you are out of control. It is the amount of time you are out of control that makes the difference between being reckless and just skiing. It is very easy to be in control but hit a different unseen snow condition that puts you on the ground in a second. I would not consider that skier to be reckless and skiing out of control. Now the skier that starts down a steep run in a wedge going straight doing everything they can just to stay up right is skiing out of control and needs to do something about it. That is what I consider an out of control skier not following the skiers responsibility code, but damn are they fun to watch from the lift. Sometimes a fall is a way to stay in control. You can see something is not going right so dropping to your hip and coming to a stop is a way of staying in control, vs trying to hang on(being out of control) and hope you pull it off.

How do you know if you are pushing the envelope if you do not find that edge. This does not mean you need to fall but you have to get very close to it. This is something I found racing DH mountain bikes. You think falling when skiing is bad try falling on dirt and rocks at speed. You really did not want to fall so finding the edge and where you are fastest was a little more difficult. You did need to push yourself and see what it was you really could do. It can be surprising how much more you can do than you thought you could. Along the way you will take some falls. It is very surprising how you can fall on a bike and not get hurt, starfishing down the hill at 35 mph was actually kind of fun. You do need to know how to fall. I am not sure how to practice it because it needs to just happen you do not have time to think about it.

None of us plan on falling. When you pick a difficult/technical line down a run you plan how you are going to ski the line. You do not think about where you are going to fall. But once you drop in unforeseen things can happen that take you out. I was hitting a roughly 15' drop with about a 20' gap yesterday into a chopped up partially bumped out run yesterday. Yes, you could say the first couple times I landed I was out of control, took me about 50-75' to regain composure and come to a stop. After that I knew how the conditions were at the speed I was coming in and was able to start going bigger and landing in complete control and just continue skiing the run I was landing in. You can only think about and analyze something so much before you just have to try it. You plan for what you think is going to happen and be prepared for surprises. It is doing things like this that really push yourself and show what you can do. 

Of course there are the appropriate places to push your limits. Pushing yourself racing GS you do not do it on a random groomed run. Do it on a run where the course is laid out with significant fall zones and even better if they have some b net or a net setup. Learning new tricks in the air should be done in the park. Then take them elsewhere after you have them perfected in the park. Skiing steep technical lines or cliffs do what you can in a controlled area in bounds. The back country is not a place to try something new when help is so far away. The same goes for beginner areas, you do not take a first timer out onto the freeway green run of the mountain. You take them to a secluded area where they can concentrate on what they are learning. Falling is part of the sport. Do what you can to prepare for it. If that means skiing so you don't fall that is fine. If you are going to push yourself look at what could go wrong, be willing to accept the consequences, and make sure it does not interfere with others on the hill..
post #39 of 69
Falling hurts.  If it hurts don't do it.
post #40 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Falling hurts.  If it hurts don't do it.

You're doing it wrong.
post #41 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

 

Add fatigue the causes of the fall zone.    I feel most at risk when over doing it after skiing for several hours.

Excellent comment. I just started sking, however i've raced motocross for the past 22 years, and my #1 anti-auger-myself in the dirt law is when my upper body gets tired, I have about another 10 min. of reasonable strength left to maintain control.... If I push myself, BAD things follow....
post #42 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifer View Post

I've never had the pleasure of skiing with Bob but I doubt that he pushes as hard these days as he did when he was 22. Granted he still skis at a high level but relatively speaking, I'm betting it isn't like when he was 22.
 

You're way off in one way. Many experienced (read older) skiers are skiing much more difficult terrain than when they were 22, and by skiing it, you know what I mean: f'ing nailing it.


causes of falling added: fatigue is a big one. fatigue can reduce the level you ski at by several levels
post #43 of 69
In my opinion every once and a while its good to take a fall. This may sound bizarre but I think its fun when your just tumbling down a trail with no idea where the hell your going. However, I do not think it is fun when you take a really hard fall and hurt yourself. I can tell you last season I took a bad fall and almost hurt my back really bad, I was scared stiff when I fell cause I new I was going way to fast and would have no way of stopping. Although I actually don't fall that much, and I ski all terrain regardless of difficulty. It does seem the most of the times I fall are on easy trails...kinda weird but its true
post #44 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by richkay228 View Post



Excellent comment. I just started sking, however i've raced motocross for the past 22 years, and my #1 anti-auger-myself in the dirt law is when my upper body gets tired, I have about another 10 min. of reasonable strength left to maintain control.... If I push myself, BAD things follow....
 

Exactly, I was the same with training on the DH bike. Once I started to feel tired I started to pay very close attention to my riding. Riding past the point of feeling tired can help improve your strength and endurance. But once I noticed myself making even a slight mistake in something I was nailing all day I knew it was time to call it a day. Mistakes are always a sign of fatigue. You need to be very aware of yourself to notice when the slight non consequential mistakes happen so you do not keep going and make the big painful mistake. 
post #45 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by goblue View Post

I have two thoughts about falling:

1. Ski under control at all times, so you're less likely to have a fall, but ...
2. If you think you're about to fall, Don't fight it; sit down!!!! 

Simple rules to live by and to avoid your friendly local orthopedic surgeon's office.
 

sitting down is the worst advice to give when falling. Anytime you're knees are lower than your hips during a fall leaves you suscept to an acl tear. The classic backwards twisting fall. Usually during a slow speed or a seemingly harmless sitback. Rules of falling were to thrust your hands and poles forwards. Falling forwards or to the side sliding to a stop. Sitting back stretches your acl to the max. Any sudden tweek in this position and you're done. As in ACL tear.
post #46 of 69
 yeah, I don't "sit down" to slow down, I turn up the mountain, and as I'm almost stopped, fall back on my ass/hip if I need to sit back and re-evaluate my situation.  Especially when I'm "nopolean" it up.  
post #47 of 69
If you fall often you're a douche bag
If you never fall you're an ever bigger douche bag...
Take your pick
post #48 of 69
No Falls.  No b@lls.
post #49 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post




sitting down is the worst advice to give when falling. Anytime you're knees are lower than your hips during a fall leaves you suscept to an acl tear. The classic backwards twisting fall. Usually during a slow speed or a seemingly harmless sitback. Rules of falling were to thrust your hands and poles forwards. Falling forwards or to the side sliding to a stop. Sitting back stretches your acl to the max. Any sudden tweek in this position and you're done. As in ACL tear.
 


You are of course right - other than the falling forward part; never lead with your chin. 

I should have clarified - sit down into the hill (ie. to your side). Not that I can sit straight back. Vintage knees like mine don't bend that way. 
post #50 of 69
I noticed something: in the park, hucking, jibbing around falls are part of the drill. predictable terrain, mostly low speeds, no exposure whatsoever, sure, fall all over the place.

so younger riders, park and hucking officianados, feel comfortable about fall to learn and fall for courage.
post #51 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer256 View Post

Falls. Not as good as you think you are

Fixed to for you.  How often does Bode fall, even when he DQ's?
post #52 of 69
imo you're never going to become agressive if you don't push it/fall.
the fastest boys in our region look like they're going to blow out of every turn, and they crash often in practice.

it seems like after many falls you get used to it and learn to relax and not tense up during a fall. the fall is less punishing-seeming...
post #53 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

I noticed something: in the park, hucking, jibbing around falls are part of the drill. predictable terrain, mostly low speeds, no exposure whatsoever, sure, fall all over the place.

so younger riders, park and hucking officianados, feel comfortable about fall to learn and fall for courage.

'Cept I've seen several kids bounce off of the rails on the way down and sustain some nasty bruises on arms, legs, torso, etc. I think helmets are a good idea in the park, having seen the ways that kids can dump it there. Body armor would be nice, too, but a lot of parents might keep the kids out of the park rather than spend the money on the armor, or they'd think that if the kids need body armor, it's better not to get involved.

My son took a pretty good whack on the shin when his snowboard stopped dead mid-rail. His forays into the park were noticeably less frequent after that.

I've found that doing ballet spins can result in some pretty awkward falls, being as how the legs are usually in some weird position when balance is lost.
post #54 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrison Claystone View Post




... Body armor would be nice, too, but a lot of parents might keep the kids out of the park rather than spend the money on the armor, or they'd think that if the kids need body armor, it's better not to get involved....

 


Shinguards and impact shorts in particular get worn in the park pretty frequently.  Sometimes various versions of jackets/spine protectors, too.  (Shinguards are almost entirely for rails, obviously.) 

Aside from bulk, one other big disadvantage is heat and overall clamminess.  Depending on how cold/overcast it is, this can be a big drawback, or make it much easier to stay warm. 

You're totally correct that a number of park features have their own versions of "exposure" associated with them. 
post #55 of 69
It's all part of the learning process.  When a toddler learns how to walk, he will take a few falls.  The toddler isn't going too fast, often a parent is holding on, the child is on grass, or on a mattress, or in a playpen.  He learns to be careful by getting a little hurt.  After a few years the falls are fewer and farther between.  Hopefully by the time the kid's running fast he has learned not to fall so much. 

When you first learn to ski falls are fairly frequent, but if you're lucky, you're not skiing too fast, and your skiing in a safe place.  You get a few bumps and bruises and learn to be careful.  By the time your skiing down the hill at a mile a minute, hopefully you have learned not to fall so much.
post #56 of 69
fair enough. falling becomes an event of consequence. and that changes my thoughts on falling
post #57 of 69
Quote:
 
It's all part of the learning process.  When a toddler learns how to walk, he will take a few falls.  The toddler isn't going too fast, often a parent is holding on, the child is on grass, or on a mattress, or in a playpen.  He learns to be careful by getting a little hurt.  After a few years the falls are fewer and farther between.  Hopefully by the time the kid's running fast he has learned not to fall so much. 

When you first learn to ski falls are fairly frequent, but if you're lucky, you're not skiing too fast, and your skiing in a safe place.  You get a few bumps and bruises and learn to be careful.  By the time your skiing down the hill at a mile a minute, hopefully you have learned not to fall so much.


Related to this is something I've experienced first-hand recently: ~20 year-olds starting with skiing.

My girlfriend picked up skiing last year, and took about 15 full days of ESF training. On the final day, I misjudged her skill and brought her to some hard slopes. She fell, alot, often at slow speed. No problem with those, it's part of the learning process.

The one thing that I disliked is how she had absolutely no knowledge of how to behave during a fall. The first few times, she actually turned herself head first and kept going, gaining speed during the fall (which made me to do a quite heroic rescue! ). I had to give her tons of pointers for her owns -and the other people around us- safety.

So, my point: while older (12-30y) people pick up the basics relatively quickly, they (their instructors) often don't push the limits enough imo, or should at least get some basic courses on crashing. Because these younger students will search out more challenging terrain, often without having gained any experience on heavy falls. If I think back to my first ten years of skiing, all I remember is getting up, walking up to get my ski's and continuing. The 5 years after that, I remember falling and wondering how I managed to recover. The years after that, I just remember my one big crash that almost cost me an eye, but that's it in terms of falling.
post #58 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

Dust on scree for example will stop your ski in a split second. then, whatcha' gonna' do??? And you'll probably land on rock, not snow, whole different feeling.

 


My two worst beaters in the past year fit that ^^^^. Both cases skiing really fast, both cases thankfully tumbled over snow instead of sharks.

Falling is part of skiing. You try to minimise it, but it happens.

IMO the absolute worst falls are slide-for-life falls. I'd think the only thing worse would be getting caught in an avalanche.
post #59 of 69
Agreed on sliding falls. Head first sliding falls have their own special feeling. Did one on a steep icy pitch once. Ended by slamming my side into a house sized rock that divides the chute. nearly broke me in half. Would a skier fear that fall if he had never experienced one? It doesn't take a lot of imagination looking down a steep, firm pitch to know what would happen if you lose it....

Why do we ski worst when we need to ski best? Now that's a skiers constant dilemna.

A sliding fall in a large sluff sort of combines all your worst expectations.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post





My two worst beaters in the past year fit that ^^^^. Both cases skiing really fast, both cases thankfully tumbled over snow instead of sharks.

Falling is part of skiing. You try to minimise it, but it happens.

IMO the absolute worst falls are slide-for-life falls. I'd think the only thing worse would be getting caught in an avalanche.
 
post #60 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post



Why do we ski worst when we need to ski best? Now that's a skiers constant dilemna.


 
If you read the book, Golf Is Not a Game of Perfect, you will get your answer in the first 50 pages.  
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