EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Some times you have to do it all by yourself
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Some times you have to do it all by yourself

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
post #2 of 25
Wasn't sure what to expect with a title like that,   but.... Well Done tdk6!   Thanks for sharing it!
post #3 of 25

tdk6, thanks for the memories.   In tahoe in the 70's we called those Javelin turns.  race training must do.  Especially the icy hard pack noise. 

post #4 of 25
Thread Starter 

Thanks for your replies. Yes, the good old javelin drill. I still do it frequently. Since my video hosting domain stopped existing all of a sudden and all my videos were lost on line and links stopped working about a year ago I was finally got arround digging in my old video archives on several hard discs for any lost files. I will be posting more in days to come.

post #5 of 25
Ain't working right now.
post #6 of 25
Thread Starter 

I can see it no problem.

post #7 of 25
Works for me.
post #8 of 25
I remember Javelin turns as being made across a steeper slope with the hoisted ski pointing down the fall line.

Not much application to modern ski technique.
post #9 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post

I remember Javelin turns as being made across a steeper slope with the hoisted ski pointing down the fall line.

Not much application to modern ski technique.

KB,

How about for helping one who is on the inside ski to find out how to balance on and use the outside ski? Starting slow and easy like the video (these look to turn through about 80 - 90 degrees on mild terrain) then working up to the full on high speed javelin of the old days (nearly 180 degree turns).

I seem to recall Art Furrer doing Javelins on mild terrain, though. But he was just showing off. FWIW he named the trick after the hart ski he was on back then.

MR
post #10 of 25
 It's about countering properly, not just twisting your leg.  The goal is for the pelvis to rotate atop the stance leg, so that the free leg ski tip is held over the stance leg ski tip.

Lots of application in modern skiing.
post #11 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post

 It's about countering properly, not just twisting your leg.  The goal is for the pelvis to rotate atop the stance leg, so that the free leg ski tip is held over the stance leg ski tip.

Lots of application in modern skiing.
 

There are many different versions of this drill. One is the one you are refering to here above but I have seen annother done by a mogul skier from down under. He pointed the lifted ski much more across.

I think the javelin drill is good for balancing over the outside ski, upper body counter, close stance, for aft balance etc.
post #12 of 25
 I don't see a reason for doing this drill without rotating the pelvis on top of the stance leg. 
post #13 of 25
Javelins can work wonders for training people at a reasonably high level to steer with the lower body. Although you need to monitor carefully that they are actually are steering the stance ski under the inside ski and not just turning the inside leg to point the ski to the outside....
The version that is being done in the video looks more like it is designed to develop tipping of the skis.
post #14 of 25
Wow,  can you fill me in on the mechanics of this "one legged steering"?
post #15 of 25
Just for your entertainment, here is my boy, 2 weeks after his 6th birthday doing his version of javelin turns with no prompting, just started doing them.
post #16 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinerd View Post

Javelins can work wonders for training people at a reasonably high level to steer with the lower body....

Ya learn somethin' new every day.  I didn't know that, but I have seen javelins used effectively as part of a program to eradicate steering from one's skiing and replace it with efficient movement patterns.  Same tool, opposite uses.
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinerd View Post

Javelins can work wonders for training people at a reasonably high level to steer with the lower body. Although you need to monitor carefully that they are actually are steering the stance ski under the inside ski and not just turning the inside leg to point the ski to the outside....
The version that is being done in the video looks more like it is designed to develop tipping of the skis.

I think skinerd is referring to the version of Javelins called SKIING INTO JAVELIN.  It can be done while steering or carving.  You basically just let the stance ski turn under the lifted ski.  You don't actively turn the pelvis and position the lifted ski over the stance ski, as you do in the standard version.  You just let it happen naturally as you turn.  You gradually gain more and more counter as the stance ski changes compass direction, because you don't let the pelvis turn along with it.  

I demo and teach both versions in my Building Blocks Angulation DVD.
post #18 of 25
Rick,

Many thanks for the clarification.
post #19 of 25
Thread Starter 
dustyfog, nice video. It goes to show what kind of balance issues there are embedded in this drill and general skiing BTW. Look how he battles the upper body counter vs rotation bit. Half of the time he is nailing it. The for aft balance I refered to is also very clearly visiable. He is hanging on the back of his boots and his tail touches the snow. He supports himself that way. My 8y old looked at the video and said it would be easy to do.... then he whent away... LOL. Kids with all their self confidence....

E, explain yourself more clear. Are you refering to upper/lower body separation and the natural way of skiing into counter or something else?
post #20 of 25
I'd rather be turning the leg against the pelvis than rotating the pelvis against the leg.
post #21 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

E, explain yourself more clear. Are you refering to upper/lower body separation and the natural way of skiing into counter or something else?


I am referring to actively rotating the pelvis on top of the stance leg so that the ski tip of the free leg sits over the stance ski tip.

This is an excellent example of upper/lower body separation.  It's not "skiing into counter" although similar mechanics do apply.  In my opinion, skiing into counter can only work when the skier can actively create counter with the proper movements in the hip joint.  Without having separation here, the skier has a tendency to twist the spine to face the shoulders only to the outside of the turn.  This is a weak position and should be avoided as it can cause injury, especially in us old heavy folks with narrow disks..   
post #22 of 25
Thread Starter 
Holding the ski tip only slightly over the other ski tip and pulling back the inside ski while pressing the boots together and relesing by stepping onto your LTE of your new stance ski is one specific drill. I was not aware of this version of the drill when I did the video so thats why its different. You are right about countering from the hips and not from the shoulders but IMO that is only emphasized the more you let your lifted ski point across. I find it a bit dangerous pointing it far across so I reccomend you gusy trying this out while TGIF carving to be careful.
post #23 of 25
dustyfog, nice video of your son.  Having a good time skiing.
post #24 of 25
Thanks Pete. Just got back from Alta with Dax. He had a blast as did his Dad. Snowed only one day, but weather was perfect, snow was soft, powdery, no wonder they say its the "Greatest Snow on Earth" ! Will post TR in a few weeks, Alta is something else and the Alta Lodge is really fantastic for kids.
post #25 of 25
tdk6: love your boy's attitude..kids are it..
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Some times you have to do it all by yourself