or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Pretty brutal

post #1 of 77
Thread Starter 
So I was on the hill today coaching and I was watching the patrol do some kind of lift evac training, only they used kids from a school ski trip for the "victims". Anyways they got a few of them down just fine and I was watching on and off. Anyways, next thing I know I'm looking over and this kid is stuck, hanging by his jacket or helmet or I'm not even sure. So its kinda funny to watch him wiggle around for a while and I keep doing my thing watching the kids come by. 10 minutes later, buddy is still there, and they are still trying to get him unlatched, another maybe 10 minutes go by and he starts screaming. At this point one of the parents who is an ER doctor slides over as buddy stops screaming and eventually moving altogether.

They are scrambbling for a way to get him down at this point and somehow got a ladder up there and got the guy down, only by now he's not breathing. The parent who is a doc got on him right away and did CPR for a good while and got him breathing again, he figures he was out of O2 for a good 10 minutes. He wasn't responsive when the ambulance got here and were going to know tomorrow if he lived or not.

Lots of things went wrong here, just felt like sharing. The hill is going to be in a heap of trouble.
post #2 of 77
 Wow. Not good at all. I hope it turns out OK. What hill was this?
post #3 of 77
Thread Starter 
Rather not disclose the hill, I'm confident your going to hear about it on the news, in Canada anyways. Pretty much guaranteed he's not ok... If the doctor wasn't there he's dead. It was a super disturbing image watching him hang himself while everyone is looking on...

I mean in retrospect there's so many things they could have done... I'm never someone to harp on patrol, but that was terrible.
post #4 of 77
What the ? How the hell does something like this happen? 

Damn. Vibes for the kid.
Edited by tromano - 12/15/09 at 9:00pm
post #5 of 77
Thats stupid, poor kid!  hope hes ok in the end.
post #6 of 77
I think they should still be training with sacks of potatoes as the victims. That's terribly sad. Little kid skiers are the joy of our mountain, always.
post #7 of 77
How long before a lawsuit gets filed
post #8 of 77
 If he was out of O2 for 10 minutes hes dead, at that point the brain damage level reached means he won't regain consciousness or likely live without a couple machines 
post #9 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMAS29 View Post

Rather not disclose the hill, I'm confident your going to hear about it on the news, in Canada anyways. Pretty much guaranteed he's not ok... If the doctor wasn't there he's dead. It was a super disturbing image watching him hang himself while everyone is looking on...

I mean in retrospect there's so many things they could have done... I'm never someone to harp on patrol, but that was terrible.

Not a single result on Google news about it.
post #10 of 77
Thread Starter 
Last update I got is that he is fighting between life and death at a Montreal Hospital. It seems they are keeping it pretty hush hush.
post #11 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMAS29 View Post

Last update I got is that he is fighting between life and death at a Montreal Hospital. It seems they are keeping it pretty hush hush.

Is he actually going between life as in non-comatose or is he just simply going between death and a vegetative state?
post #12 of 77
TMAS29,

It sounds like two problems came together to create a tragedy. That he somehow wasn't properly supported by the evac equipment to the point where he has hanging and had loss of respiration is one thing. The other is that even though he wasn't properly supported, they couldn't continue to lower him in a timely fashion. Is this what was observed?

I've been the 'victim' before in a training exercise and it is a bit unnerving having a never ever lowering you. My experience lasted much longer on the lift, until about 5 pm in very cold weather, than it should have because of inexperience.

Using inanimate weights certainly sounds like it should be the first step in the training process.

Get well soon little buddy.
post #13 of 77
I've done many lift evacs, mostly in training, once for real.  Training always freaks me out a bit, and I always try to get someone with some climbing experience to lower me down.  I've seen total newbies to ropes doing things we would not dream of letting a first day person do in a climbing school.

This is really sad.  I'll not comment on what went wrong without the facts, but it sure is upsetting.
post #14 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog View Post

I've done many lift evacs, mostly in training, once for real.  Training always freaks me out a bit, and I always try to get someone with some climbing experience to lower me down.  I've seen total newbies to ropes doing things we would not dream of letting a first day person do in a climbing school.

This is really sad.  I'll not comment on what went wrong without the facts, but it sure is upsetting.

I almost wish I hadn't read this.  That is very upsetting.  I take it a lift evac is where they stop the lift with kids on the chair and try and get them down?  Geez, I feel for the family and the kid.  I want to hear that he is skiing down that mountain next week.  But 10 mins without o2, no good for the noggin.  Soooo sad.
post #15 of 77
What a horrible tragedy on so many levels.  Why would the patrol use kids for victims in rescue drills?  There will be plenty of blame to go around but that can wait.

Hope for the best for that child, what ever the best for him is.
post #16 of 77
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastersRacer View Post

TMAS29,

It sounds like two problems came together to create a tragedy. That he somehow wasn't properly supported by the evac equipment to the point where he has hanging and had loss of respiration is one thing. The other is that even though he wasn't properly supported, they couldn't continue to lower him in a timely fashion. Is this what was observed?

I've been the 'victim' before in a training exercise and it is a bit unnerving having a never ever lowering you. My experience lasted much longer on the lift, until about 5 pm in very cold weather, than it should have because of inexperience.

Using inanimate weights certainly sounds like it should be the first step in the training process.

Get well soon little buddy.

From my vantage point it looked like they started to lower him down just fine but something got hooked on the chair, his helmet or jacket I don't know. And for some reason they couldn't get him up again with the rope so that he could get himself free. And they just kept trying to hoist him up again until he stopped moving. At least 45 minutes went by from the moment they started to evac him to him hitting the ground.

It didn't look like he was in trouble until it was almost too late. I had a terrible night sleep last night thinking I could have helped in some way. Pretty much all the other coaches feel the same way. Were pretty distraught.
post #17 of 77
That's one of the worst things I've ever read.
post #18 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMAS29 View Post

It didn't look like he was in trouble until it was almost too late. I had a terrible night sleep last night thinking I could have helped in some way. Pretty much all the other coaches feel the same way. Were pretty distraught.

 

My heart goes out to anyone that was in any way involved in this.  I don't doubt it's hard for you, as you felt you could have helped, but you just never know.  Maybe you would have gone over to see, distracted someone, only to have the kid fall to his death.  You just can't know.  Take SOME solace in knowing that it WOULD have been different if you had been conducting the training, and do your part by doing what you can to get people to use sacks of potatoes instead of children.  Damn...
post #19 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

That's one of the worst things I've ever read.

As I was reading this thread, I was speechless.  Then I got to Segbrowns post and thought, yup that's it.
I'm sick about this.......Thoughts and prayers go out to all, but most of all to "buddy"
post #20 of 77

Don't think as infallible human beings we will ever completely eliminate these heart breaking trajedies.  Wish we could. 

post #21 of 77
Isn't the point of training is to avoid any REAL tragedy?

Sounds like some of the training are more dangereous than the actual rescue it's trying to prepare for... the image keep coming up of police shooting real bullets as training on how to use rubber bullets...
post #22 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by at_nyc View Post

Isn't the point of training is to avoid any REAL tragedy?

Sounds like some of the training are more dangereous than the actual rescue it's trying to prepare for... the image keep coming up of police shooting real bullets as training on how to use rubber bullets...

I agree.  If there was a real situation on the mountain, would they have sent their most experienced person to handler this person's life?  The more I think about this, the more I read, the more I feel like this mystery mountain could have avoided the whole ordeal.  Again, not your fault TMAS
post #23 of 77
Wow, that story took a turn for the worse quick

I've never heard of such training before (shows you how much I know..), does it happen at most resorts with non-employees as the victims? Hope the kid pulls through.
post #24 of 77
Not knowing the facts and the specifics, you just would think that when somebody who is in a life threating situation, the patrol would abandon what the protocol calls for for evacuation procedure and get the person out of their predicament. Even if you break all the rules, if you have somebody upside down and unconscious for several minutes, and you are not making any progress , you try something else.

Does that mean somebody climbs the tower and lowers themselves down to the person suspended somehow . Again I'm wrong to critique what actions were taken, but you can't help think that in hind sight better decisions coud have been made. I feel horrible for all parties involved in this tragedy.  Very sobering story to say the least . Seems almost too unbelievable to be true.
post #25 of 77
If you aren't familiar with actual evacuation procedures and/or what actually happened - and why - it might be well to refrain from critical comments concerning those.  Like "...sounds like..." "...you would think..." "...could have..."

That was a tragic outcome, and I deeply hope for the best for the victim.  And I'll be interested to hear actual facts and informed criticisms about the event so that future occurrences can be prevented.  
post #26 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

If you aren't familiar with actual evacuation procedures and/or what actually happened - and why - it might be well to refrain from critical comments concerning those.  Like "...sounds like..." "...you would think..." "...could have..."

That was a tragic outcome, and I deeply hope for the best for the victim.  And I'll be interested to hear actual facts and informed criticisms about the event so that future occurrences can be prevented.  

From what the OP told us, the fact is that a training operation was using children, and during this training, a child died or almost died.  I think that's all we need to know to question what they were doing.  Just my opinion.  
post #27 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by guroo270 View Post

From what the OP told us, the fact is that a training operation was using children, and during this training, a child died or almost died.  I think that's all we need to know to question what they were doing.  Just my opinion.  

Questioning is one thing, stating what they could have done is quite another.  
post #28 of 77
Thread Starter 
Knowing how I presently feel about it, I doubt any of the people more closely involved will sleep for some amount of time. Neither will the victim's friends looking from the chair behind him.

It's getting blury in my head how it all went down.
post #29 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

stating what they could have done is quite another.  
 

That's debatable.

I'm sure they (Patrol) did everything They knew, It obviously wasn't enough.

Not being there I cannot critique technicals but, 45min to get a ladder???

45 minutes for any life emergency operation is unacceptable. 
post #30 of 77
 Setting aside the horrible situation with the kid, and all the would/should/could questions that go with it, the one thing that I really have to ask about is why the patrol was using school kids as their "victims." Even if everything had gone perfectly, that seems like a hugely stupid idea, for any number of reasons. What's standard patrol practice elsewhere? I had always figured the lift evac training was mostly done with mostly empty lifts, with a handful of other patrollers standing in as stranded guests to train with actual people. Even doing a full evac test with employees seems like a poor idea.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Skiing Discussion