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Can you guys help me justify using poles? - Page 2

post #31 of 75
12/16/09 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by guroo270 View Post




I run into people saying this a lot.  By this token, I could say to a lot of people, "You stay out of the park?  Is that because you can't ski?"  C'mon Bush, it's just a gosh darn preference.  
Yes, I cannot ski bumps without poles, however, I see them as retarded.  To me it would be like taking a Ducati 1098R to Laguna Seca, and then having someone say, "Okay, we all know how wonderful this track is, NOW TRY IT WITH SPEED BUMPS!  IT'S GONNA BE SOOOO FUN!"
No thanks.

I would say it to anyone who stays totally out of the park or at least isnt comfortable with a small amount of air as well. well unless they were an actually a student of mine. Your reference really isnt valid about laguna seca cause skis are not bikes and good skier can ski bumps on nearlly anything. A street bike isnt made to be jarred around.

If you learned to ski bumps I doubt youd hate them, in fact there is only one person on here who I am sure can ski them fine who doesnt like them and that would be Upracer. You on the other hand seems like you have alot to learn :)

If you learned to ski bumps you would be better everywhere on the mountain!
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post #32 of 75
12/16/09 at 8:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post




I would say it to anyone who stays totally out of the park or at least isnt comfortable with a small amount of air as well. well unless they were an actually a student of mine. Your reference really isnt valid about laguna seca cause skis are not bikes and good skier can ski bumps on nearlly anything. A street bike isnt made to be jarred around.

If you learned to ski bumps I doubt youd hate them, in fact there is only one person on here who I am sure can ski them fine who doesnt like them and that would be Upracer. You on the other hand seems like you have alot to learn :)

If you learned to ski bumps you would be better everywhere on the mountain!
What about super motard racing?  By your logic, Valentino Rossi can't ride a motorcycle well, or fully enjoy a track because he doesn't ride it with bumps on it.  Silly.
Why do people feel the need to tell other people how to enjoy a mountain?  I know 3 people, not on this board, who can REALLY ski them, and hate them too.  You also have to consider how I grew up skiing... with ALL snowboarders.  
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post #33 of 75
12/16/09 at 8:41am
hey bushwacker
why don't you invite guroo for run down goat.
then see how he feels about poles
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post #34 of 75
12/16/09 at 8:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by guroo270 View Post



What about super motard racing?  By your logic, Valentino Rossi can't ride a motorcycle well, or fully enjoy a track because he doesn't ride it with bumps on it.  Silly.
Why do people feel the need to tell other people how to enjoy a mountain?  I know 3 people, not on this board, who can REALLY ski them, and hate them too.  You also have to consider how I grew up skiing... with ALL snowboarders.  

 

+1

+1 on this board that can ski the bumps, but doesn't like them. Me. I ski them when they are between me and my destination, or covered with enough pow to make them pleasant to me. Otherwise, I don't choose bumps.
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post #35 of 75
12/16/09 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post




I would say it to anyone who stays totally out of the park or at least isnt comfortable with a small amount of air as well. well unless they were an actually a student of mine. Your reference really isnt valid about laguna seca cause skis are not bikes and good skier can ski bumps on nearlly anything. A street bike isnt made to be jarred around.

If you learned to ski bumps I doubt youd hate them, in fact there is only one person on here who I am sure can ski them fine who doesnt like them and that would be Upracer. You on the other hand seems like you have alot to learn :)

If you learned to ski bumps you would be better everywhere on the mountain!
 

Why would you treat your student any differently than those of us on a forum? Don't we all deserve the same respect?
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post #36 of 75
12/16/09 at 8:54am
Thread Starter 
 one more thing I'd like to add.  If Valentino Rossi did start to race super motard, to get better in bumps, it would not make him any better at Moto GP racing.  It is completely irrelevant.  Also, Shawn White almost never went in the back country, yet he was the best person ever in the half pipe.  When he went to Japan to go real back country, he didn't mention that it would make him any better in the park, because it was also IRRELEVANT! The only way skiing bumps would make me better at what I enjoy, is if some bumps got in my way while I was where I wanted to be. 

I do appreciate the comments however.  You guys may have enticed me to bring my poles on big powder days.
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post #37 of 75
12/16/09 at 9:05am
Patrolling we end up skiing without poles all the time.  I don't see any advantage to it.

The lizard tail analogy is ok, but I'd add they can be like a cat's whiskers.  Poles let you find where the surface is and adjust accordingly.  Racers seem to be getting an inside hand down theses days.  Those of us with less angulation settle for tapping the inside pole.
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post #38 of 75
12/16/09 at 9:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastersRacer View Post




Why would you treat your student any differently than those of us on a forum? Don't we all deserve the same respect?


more respect on the forums actually. On here I say what I want and what I feel is true because you guys arent my job. Those who mind dont matter and those who matter dont mind. 

In REAL lessons everyone has to like me. if I was helping out a friend or coworker though I would be alot more open about what I was going to say. 

Your arguement about pavement motor sports is lame at best.IIts like saying lance should be racing MTB races on his road bike, or i bet Jenson Button couldnt win a WRC event in his F1 car. 

skiball, guroo skiing goat would make great video thats for sure.

and again you can do what you want, I even stated at first there are times when no poles make snese, but its very rare someone is truly good at something and still doesnt like it.

 
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post #39 of 75
12/16/09 at 9:59am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post





more respect on the forums actually. On here I say what I want and what I feel is true because you guys arent my job. Those who mind dont matter and those who matter dont mind. 

In REAL lessons everyone has to like me. if I was helping out a friend or coworker though I would be alot more open about what I was going to say. 

Your arguement about pavement motor sports is lame at best.IIts like saying lance should be racing MTB races on his road bike, or i bet Jenson Button couldnt win a WRC event in his F1 car. 

skiball, guroo skiing goat would make great video thats for sure.

and again you can do what you want, I even stated at first there are times when no poles make snese, but its very rare someone is truly good at something and still doesnt like it.

 

 

I don't think it's completely irrelevant.  I'm saying that skiing bumps will NOT make me better at shredding pow.  Somebody could just ski pow all day their whole life and be incredibly talented at it, and then for the first time come across Mary Jane at Jackson Hole and look like a fool.  And no, it isn't like saying lance should race mountain bikes on his road bike, because I supplied Valentino Rossi a supermotard bike for supermotard racing.  Besides, didn't I elaborate with the Shawn White analogy so it would be more relevant to you? I have been TRULY good at viola, bass guitar, baseball, soccer, and tennis, and I don't like any of them.
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post #40 of 75
12/16/09 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by guroo270 View Post

 I'm saying that skiing bumps will NOT make me better at shredding pow. 

You really don't know what you're talking about.

Bumps demand fore/aft balance that will make you better everywhere on the mountain.

Bumps force you to look and plan several turns ahead which will make you better everywhere on the mountain.

And by the way, all the MotoGP stars practice on dirt bikes.

Here's Val...
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post #41 of 75
12/16/09 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by guroo270 View Post




I don't think it's completely irrelevant.  I'm saying that skiing bumps will NOT make me better at shredding pow.  Somebody could just ski pow all day their whole life and be incredibly talented at it, and then for the first time come across Mary Jane at Jackson Hole and look like a fool. 

It's much easier for you to look like a fool by posting here. You won't get as winded.

PS, only gapers call it "shredding pow". If you want to up your coolness factor, call it shralping gnar.
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post #42 of 75
12/16/09 at 11:49am
Thread Starter 

You know what else can make you better at skiing powder?  skiing in powder.    
 Also, I'm curious, it seems as though all of you aspire to be the best skier possible.  How many of you guys actually go out on the mountain to enjoy yourselves?  I'm picking up a mindset of people vigorously trying to get better.  Taking it all sooo seriously, that people that don't aspire to do it ALL are somehow less of a person or skier.  This is a recreational sport for 99.9% of people.  I swear most of you guys seem to think that each trip down the mountain, something needs to be learned, or you just aren't doing your part.  When do you guys just start enjoying the mountain.  I feel like I'm plenty good of a skier, not the best, but then again i NEVER claimed to be, nor do I aspire to be.  A small part of the reason I ski is the touring.  You can see sooooo much more of a mountain on skis than you can hiking.  There are so many different ways to have a wonderful day on the mountain.  Groomers, powder, sight seeing, bunny chasing, being out with friends, etc. 
"shredding pow" - you're nit picking.  That wasn't even worth posting.
Newfydog seemed to have the best reason for keeping the stix around, although, I never thought not having them would be an advantage.  I simply don't see the advantage for using them, which is why I posed the question.
The mindset thing must stem from being an instructor...
I may not be able to outperform many of you (I even said my handicap would be a 5 in the golf, skiing handicap thread), but I guarantee I have every bit as much fun.  Guarantee it.  And if all you guys worry about all this stuff that much, maybe you should take a step back and make sure you are ENJOYING skiing to the fullest. 
This thread has gone from reasons for skiing with poles, to making jabs at me, which is fine, it's a forum for opinions, but don't think that you're me and have the slightest clue as to what floats my boat.


Edited by guroo270 - 12/16/09 at 12:19pm
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post #43 of 75
12/16/09 at 2:20pm
It easier to get in over your head without poles. If the bowl that looked great from the lift ends up windblown and icy, block turns might be the only thing that lets you ski down.

Start watching at 3:30. Turn down the sound if you value your ears. 

You can't ski like this without poles. You may not ever want to ski like this, but you might have to, especially if you're travelling the road less traveled, looking for POW and avoiding the bumps.

 
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post #44 of 75
12/16/09 at 2:41pm
Thread Starter 
man, that looks terrible.  I've gotten myself in something similar to that, not as crazy or difficult i'm sure.  That's true, I cannot do that without poles.  I handled my situation by just sliding down sideways for the most part, and jump turning when I needed to (after kicking off as much of the snow as i could to reduce weight). 
Great post.
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post #45 of 75
12/16/09 at 2:48pm
Okay, no poles but after all you asked our opinion!!!
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post #46 of 75
12/16/09 at 3:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob4snow View Post

Okay, no poles but after all you asked our opinion!!!

You guys have convinced me to bring them along on big pow days..!
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post #47 of 75
12/16/09 at 3:22pm
I'll take credit/blame for being the "you guys" who managed to 'help you justify using poles'. Sorry, davluri and anyone else who was excited about the prospect of snaking this guy's line. guroo, concerning your response to one of my posts, something about recognizing the advantages of poles in competition, powder day feeding frenzy is often a competitive event. :)
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post #48 of 75
12/16/09 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post


 A street bike isnt made to be jarred around.
 
Neither am I.  I suck at bumps because I avoided them, not the other way around.  I used to suck at DH, carving ice, and flying off rollers, but I didn't avoid that.  The simple fact is that unless you want to be jarred around, you have to slow down for bumps.  To some people, like the young man I used to be, that's just not fun and exciting.  Sure, I skied them when they were in the way, but I didn't enjoy them.  I soon learned how to avoid them.  Instead of going through the bumps on Powder Face, I ducked the rope and took the cliff.  You can speed down cliffs, so long as the bottom smooths out gradually.

I never really found sticking a pole in powder would to any good.  I suppose if it had a basket the size of snow shoe it might be useful.
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post #49 of 75
12/16/09 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post



Neither am I.  I suck at bumps because I avoided them, not the other way around.  I used to suck at DH, carving ice, and flying off rollers, but I didn't avoid that.  The simple fact is that unless you want to be jarred around, you have to slow down for bumps.  To some people, like the young man I used to be, that's just not fun and exciting.  Sure, I skied them when they were in the way, but I didn't enjoy them.  I soon learned how to avoid them.  Instead of going through the bumps on Powder Face, I ducked the rope and took the cliff.  You can speed down cliffs, so long as the bottom smooths out gradually.

I never really found sticking a pole in powder would to any good.  I suppose if it had a basket the size of snow shoe it might be useful.
 

bumps arent jarring......well if you stink at them they are....
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post #50 of 75
12/16/09 at 3:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post




bumps arent jarring......well if you stink at them they are....
Try them at SG speeds.
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post #51 of 75
12/16/09 at 4:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post



Try them at SG speeds.
 

sorry I am not as cool as you SG speeds and bump skiing in my skill set dont go together. 
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post #52 of 75
12/16/09 at 4:10pm
It's not a cool thing.  It's just that if you prefer to ski fast and don't like being jarred, you will likely not spend a lot of time in big bumps. 
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post #53 of 75
12/16/09 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

It's not a cool thing.  It's just that if you prefer to ski fast and don't like being jarred, you will likely not spend a lot of time in big bumps. 

Please explain this fetish with velocity. It is a mystery to me. 

I believe in the theory of relativity. Fast in the bumps is a slower than fast in the bowls is slower than fast on a downhill race course. But they're all equally fast.

For me, fast is defined by how quickly I have to make decisions and react to the terrain, not my velocity vector.
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post #54 of 75
12/16/09 at 4:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by retroEric View Post




Please explain this fetish with velocity. It is a mystery to me. 

I believe in the theory of relativity. Fast in the bumps is a slower than fast in the bowls is slower than fast on a downhill race course. But they're all equally fast.

For me, fast is defined by how quickly I have to make decisions and react to the terrain, not my velocity vector.

dont try to understand ghost it will never make sense...
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post #55 of 75
12/16/09 at 4:58pm
Good thing y'all are not debating helmets.
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post #56 of 75
12/16/09 at 4:59pm
Thread Starter 
 Evidently I'm a "nopolean".  I thought this was a spelling error at first, didn't get it.  Pretty funny though. Props to Bush for that one.  We can be friends.  And think, neither of us will ruin each other's tracks.
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post #57 of 75
12/16/09 at 5:11pm
 Please to observe Andy Mahre segment starting  at about 15:30.



Anyone here who thinks they are as knowledgeable or as good a skier as Andy Mahre, raise your virtual hand... If you think you can ski/jump/land forward as well as he does switch - wave your virtual hand vigorously. Anyone who thinks Mahre is not skiing steep or deep, raise both virtual hands...

Anyone tempted to say that what he is doing is not skiing - just....well, just give it up now...

I'm not arguing whether or not anyone should use poles. Or whether or not they have certain utility under certain circimstances. Just offering some empirical evidence that many claims about the importance of poles are simple mythology.
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post #58 of 75
12/16/09 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

dont try to understand ghost it will never make sense...

Thanks, that will save me hours and hours. It's like making sense of a lava lamp.

Poles aren't necessary, but they can be very helpful.
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post #59 of 75
12/16/09 at 5:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post

 Please to observe Andy Mahre segment starting  at about 15:30.



Anyone here who thinks they are as knowledgeable or as good a skier as Andy Mahre, raise your virtual hand... If you think you can ski/jump/land forward as well as he does switch - wave your virtual hand vigorously. Anyone who thinks Mahre is not skiing steep or deep, raise both virtual hands...

Anyone tempted to say that what he is doing is not skiing - just....well, just give it up now...

I'm not arguing whether or not anyone should use poles. Or whether or not they have certain utility under certain circimstances. Just offering some empirical evidence that many claims about the importance of poles are simple mythology.
Wow.  There's no way Andy is having any fun.  I didn't see him hit 1 bump run.  JK.  That was an awesome video.  I absolutely love the powder, nose butter at 18:08.  The runs at 4:30, 8:40, and 11:00... 
I'm happy to have more than just a name in common with that guy than just a name.  
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post #60 of 75
12/16/09 at 6:17pm
God some of you fellas are weird.  To the original poster, obviously you have a little experience with each branch of skiing, carving, bumps, park, powder, etc... So based on your experiences you should have the mental capacity to decide whats right for you for each type of skiing.  Personally I only have 6 seasons total under my belt, but I'm young (17), fit, and am a very aggressive skier, at least at my small easy coast mountain, but I can't seem to be able to make any kind of a turn on any kind of snow without poles, it freaks me out.
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