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Help in turn description

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
I'm reading Skiing Right by Horst Abraham. He mentions a STEM SWING turn and a PARALLEL SWING turn. I cannot find a description of these "swing" turns anywhere. Can you help?

Please see my later post, quoting the passage from the book.

[ September 10, 2003, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Melf ]
post #2 of 13
Dear Melf,
I'm not sure, but I would guess that a "Stem Swing" is prob. what I learned (100 years ago) as a "Stem Christie"-short swing turn initiated by stemming/unweighting, then skidding then carving.
I assume the parrallel swing is just a typical "Short Swing" turn --Unweight edge change/skid then carve with no stemming.
I may be wrong. Anyone else?
post #3 of 13

After a google on the question of 'swing,' my computer screen ended up here.

A wonderful article. Highly recommended.

Swing Turn? In the days of longer, heavier and more cumbersome skis, skis were swung! It conjurs imagery of an elegantly postured, full, deliberate, circular, directional movement of the skis. In our current times we use rotary, steering, pivoting, redirecting.

Whatdaya think? (Anybody play Balderdash?)
post #4 of 13
I'm a really that old? Of course these skis were "Swung". We had to jump and "swing" the heels around an axis near the shovels--quick sl turns--short swing. Come on--I can't be the only one here who didn't grow up with "Shape Skis". Oh and by the way, even old pencil-straight GS skis had a "shape". It just wasn't as dramatic as today's skis and though we had to skid alot more--they did still carve on edge--Really they did-- [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #5 of 13
Thread Starter 
Hey guys, thanks for the input! Perhaps a quote from the book would shed more light.

"The Austrian system shifts the initial turning impetus from the shoulders to the lower body in all levels of learning, from beginning to advanced. The technique places emphasis on the forward sideslipping, the stem turn and the stem swing. These basics are the central core of ski instruction. They are the basis for advancement to the parallel swings, and the Austrians consider the stem swing the most important turn for general use by all skiers."

This book, Skiing Right, is the Official Book of the Professional Ski Instructors of America. [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]

post #6 of 13
Melf, The book was published in 1983. Swing is a synonym for turn, coined back in the Forties. You know, jazz, swing, Tommy Dorsey????

In other words, I think the stem swing turn is like shrimp scampi.

[ September 10, 2003, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: nolo ]
post #7 of 13
>>>The technique places emphasis on the forward sideslipping, the stem turn and the stem swing.<<<

Melf, nolo is right, in the german laguage 'schwung'=swing and simply means a turn with slipping.

A stem turn involves steering all the way around the turn with the edge 'biting' as it were. It is a slow turn, essentially a narrow snowplow turn ,snowplow as opposed to 'gliding' wedge,with the tails apart all the way around the turn. Why it is called a stem turn is that, unlike the snowplow inititation where both tails are pushed out equally and at the same time, from a traverse, the downhill ski edge is held and the uphill skitail is 'stemmed' by lifting or brushing.

The stem swing on the other hand is a faster turn and is the inititation via stem turn and the finish via parallel turn. In the beginning stem swing, aka Stem Christie, the skis are allowed to go parallel at or near when the skis enter the fall line. The advanced stem swing is what you see many skiers do now who think the are skiing parallel turns.

The initiation is a quick one-two weight shift at the initiation with the rest a parallel swing, often ending in a carve with the new skis. This stem is often a tail displacement of only a couple of inches and it's a great way to ski when you are tired and you haven't mastered the latest horizontal shift of the CM

I remember that the term 'christie' was used for sliding turns until the Austrians, I think it was Prof. Kruckenhauser, modernized it to a more discriptive term, swing.

Both Christie and Swing were used to describe a sliding turn and the term Turn was used to describe steered turns. It gradually just went to Turns.

post #8 of 13
How interesting, Ott! Thanks for making the connection between the original christie (from Christiana, a town in Norway, I believe) and the Austrian swing. I know that Fred Iselin has quite a nice riff on "swing" in his 1940s book, Invitation to Modern Skiing.
post #9 of 13
Thread Starter 
Great explanation! Thanks.
post #10 of 13
While the 'swing' originally described the long sexy smooooth turns, it is interesting that what survived to this day is the term short'swing'. It just sounds better and describes a certain maneuver, rahter than 'shortturn', which could be any short turn.

Shortswing is wedeln with an edge set, depending on the steepness of the slope, but both are fall line skiing with the upper body minimally involved.

post #11 of 13
Great stuff, Ott! Thanks, and cheers to the genuine Kanone of EpicSki!

Best regards,

[ September 11, 2003, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: Bob Barnes/Colorado ]
post #12 of 13
Hi Bob.... Booom>>>>>>> [img]smile.gif[/img] ....Ott
post #13 of 13
Originally posted by nolo:
How interesting, Ott! Thanks for making the connection between the original christie (from Christiana, a town in Norway, I believe)
More currently known as Oslo!

What a great article linked to above. History I have never heard of!. Oh how things (never) change! Eh?

[ September 11, 2003, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: Roto ]
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