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Trying to break old school " A Frame", chipping left side topsheets of skis

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I am a 51 yo old school skier, and I have been working on improving my carving skills and keeping my stance wider. I am chipping the upper left topsheets of both skis(which I switch regularly). Is this due to A-Frame, and not tipping inside ski enough going into turn?

post #2 of 11
 It certainly could be. If you're not using that little toe edge on the inside ski, the flat ski will have a tendency to slide down and meet your other one.
post #3 of 11
Curious, My first thought is there isn't enough information here to say what is causing your right ski to end up underneath your left ski. A half dozen probable causes come to mind but to be honest without more information identifying the root cause is dificult. Can you remember feeling, or hearing the ski tips running into each other? You mentioned an A frame so I am assuming you think that is happening. Is that correct? Can you share why you've come to that conclusion? Also do you have any past injuries?
post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
I do tend to ski with my knees fairly close together( knocking) and my outside ski more angulated. No injuries, except for left full achilles tear 4 years ago, however that hasn't been an issue. My upper body is relatively quiet, and facing down fall line.
post #5 of 11
Hi Pauliestew,

Have you seen a boot fitter? Have you had a boot alignment done?--------Wigs
post #6 of 11
Thread Starter 
Yes, Mark Elling at Bachelor does a really good job. Maybe I should see him again? But there's got to be more to it, don't you think?
post #7 of 11

Yes, I do think there's more to it than just alignment. You mentioned a narrow stance. I would think that a narrow stance would hide the frame somewhat. But if you feel your alignment is spot on, then your focus needs to be heavily on what your inside leg is doing. Work on really steering that leg in the turn while holding it back and not letting it creep forward. Feel the cuff pressuring the outside of the shin on the inside leg while all the time tipping and turning, twisting the femur. Sometimes in a high performance turn, too much counter may hinder aligned leg shafts. Square up a bit more. Give these thing a try and get back two us.----Wigs

post #8 of 11
Sounds like alignment isn't an issue. Which leaves movements and habits. Since you injured your left foot the possibility exist that you favored that foot during your recovery. If you didn't actively deprogram those movements they may still be happening to some extent. One possibility is a slightly sequential release and re-engagement of the skis. Especially since you use different edge angles on both skis. That simultaneous release movement is more difficult when the skis are on two different edge angles. Not impossible but not easy either. I didn't read anything about this disrupting your turns, or any conscious awareness of when the skis collide. Could it be that as you start your left turns the right ski begins turning just a moment sooner and just enough to allow the right tip to get under the left momentarily? Think about not starting the new turn until you release the old turn, then like Wigs says use a more active inside leg movement to keep that inside leg and ski out of the way.
Edited by justanotherskipro - 12/8/09 at 8:36pm
post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
Thanks to both of you for your feedback. I'll work on that inside edge tomorrow on the hill. I noticed yesterday going up the chair that my tracks are very clear cut on my outside edges, and that my inside tracks were much lighter thru the turn, particularly in the falline part of the turn, with still a hint of skidding that ski at times.
post #10 of 11
Pauliestew, that wider stance you're working on may be a partial source of your problems. 

A wider stance encourages an A-frame.  It's harder to maintain parallel shins, and thus equal edge angles, when you're in a wider stance.  In an A-framed stance your outside ski will want to carve more sharply than your inside ski, so your skis will naturally want to converge on themselves.  Converging means come together, and that's exactly what they'll do if you don't actively twist your inisde ski to keep it turning in harmony with your outside ski.

OK, let's see what we can do to fix it.  Move to a gentle slope, and leave your poles at the bottom of the hill.  You're going to do the Hands on Knees drill.  Start out in a gentle traverse, with a narrow stance (skis approx a foot apart), and your hands on your thighs, just above your knees.  Do the traverse, using your hand to tip both knees uphill, and put both skis on the exact same low edge angle.  Look down to .make sure your shins remain parallel as you tip you skis on edge.   Your skis will carve uphill, both skis carving cleanly.  Keep turning until you've turned uphill and come to a stop.

Next, do the same thing again, but steepen your traverse.  Do these traverses in both directions.  Then do the drill, starting with your skis facing straight down the falline.   Again, do it turning both left and right to a stop. 

Keep progressing by doing the drill in real turns, starting with gentle turns that keep you going relatively straight down the falline, then progressively make your turns more and more across the hill.  Keep your hands on your legs, and keep watching to make sure your shins are parallel.  Make a mental note of what that position feels like as you're doing all the variations of this drill. 

After a while you'll be able to grab your poles and ski normal, and your A-frame and ski crossing issues will very likely be a thing of the past.  From there it will be a matter of learning to acheive higher edge angles, while maintaining the same sound stance fundimentals.  But let's start with this much. 
post #11 of 11

What would be helpful to us, if you can identify what part of the turn your ski tips hit together.  My guess is your left ski tip hits against the right ski as you begin a turn to the right, but not too often turning the other direction (to the left).  A real A-frame usually happens after the turn has started and there is no real hitting or chipping of the skis. 

Any input you can provide us would be helpful.   Thanks.

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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Trying to break old school " A Frame", chipping left side topsheets of skis