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Ski Recommendations for Advanced NE skier

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

Hey all, this is my first post here so please excuse any social/factual faux paus!

 

To start, I am an 18 year old 6’ 155lb skier based in the northeast. I started skiing when I was about 10, and have gotten serious in the past 3 or so years. Currently I ski almost exclusively blacks and double blacks in the NE (Killington, sugarloaf, Sunday river). I am exclusively self-taught/taught by my father, so my style isn’t textbook but I can certainly hold my own. I really hope to make skiing a big part of my life, so I wish to really start developing my skills. I have recently started to foray into moguls and am having fun playing around there. I haven’t done much off-piste/tree runs, but I really hope to get into it this year.

 

So why am I writing this post? Well as I was growing for the past 7 or so years, I have exclusively rented skis. We felt that as my weight/height was fluctuating, it was pointless to invest in equipment, but as I am done with all that (thankfully) I am ready to purchase some skis. I already own a pair of nice carbon fiber poles and a pair of boots I bought off a rental shop for $80 (surprisingly comfortable and good fit for cheap rental equip!) but this is my first venture into buying skiis. Essentially, I am looking for an all-mountain ski that will allow me to improve my skills on groomers, moguls and in the trees. Deep powder performance is much less important as I live in the NE and we get a lot less of that, but it should be able to handle the NE equivalent (maybe shin deep at times). Whenever I find the money to get out west and hit the real powder, I would most likely rent real powder skis. My budget is maxed at around $400 or so (cheap college student, what can I say?) so I am looking at used equipment, which is fine for me!

 

I have done a good bit of research already (epicski has been an invaluable resource for this!) and have gotten some candidates:

 

1.     Rossignol B78 Bandits. I have read a LOT of good things about this ski and it seems to be about 70% on piste and 30% off, which is a good ratio for me. My father owns a pair of B1s which I was able to try and quite enjoyed, although he is about 5’10” so he skiis about a 165. Last year I skied a 172 or 174 (can’t quite remember) and felt that a bit longer might be nice, so I am looking at the 178s. This seems like a very good candidate

 

2.     K2 crossfires – Again read very good things about it as an all-mountain ski

 

3.     Dynastar 8000

 

My primary problem is that a lot of reviews hail the ski as excellent, so it is hard to differentiate. If anyone could help me figure out which seems the best of these, or have any other suggestions that would be great! I will be doing a demo weekend next time I hit killington, but they don’t have the B78s or 8000s as per their website (hopefully they’ll have some hidden somewhere!). This is my first foray into buying skiis, so I am a bit overwhelmed. I know that trying them out is the best way, but some early suggestions would be great.

 

Thanks all!

post #2 of 26
 I think if I were you, I'd be looking for a 80-something mm wide twintip. Maybe a Volkl Bridge )or Karma since your looking used) or K2 Public Enemy
post #3 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

 I think if I were you, I'd be looking for a 80-something mm wide twintip. Maybe a Volkl Bridge )or Karma since your looking used) or K2 Public Enemy

Where does the twin tip thing come from? - "I am looking for an all-mountain ski that will allow me to improve my skills on groomers, moguls and in the trees"

Go with the 8k - great for what you're looking to do on the least coast. Also - (I have a bunch of pairs), I prefer the older ones- -seemed snappier for least coast tight skiing.
post #4 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofun3 View Post

Where does the twin tip thing come from? - "I am looking for an all-mountain ski that will allow me to improve my skills on groomers, moguls and in the trees"
 

I read the same post as you. That's where I'd go. Obviously we all have our opinions. I for example have never liked the Dynastar Legend series.
post #5 of 26
Here you go.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/09-Head-iXRC-1100-SW-170cm-Skis-w-RFD-12-Bindings-NEW_W0QQitemZ110465288602QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSkiing?hash=item19b83e899a

Might not be best in moguls and trees, but it will be the best on what you ski most, and it's not terrible in moguls.  It will be very good for improving your skills.  A good compromise radius between skill-improving mega turns per run SL turns and slightly longer turns.  Sweet price too.

If your dead set on getting something for moguls and trees at not too high speeds..
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ROSSIGNOL-Bandit-B2-Skis-166-cm-Axium-110-Bind-NEW_W0QQitemZ350288812471QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSkiing?hash=item518ed719b7
post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofun3 View Post

Where does the twin tip thing come from? - "I am looking for an all-mountain ski that will allow me to improve my skills on groomers, moguls and in the trees"

Go with the 8k - great for what you're looking to do on the least coast. Also - (I have a bunch of pairs), I prefer the older ones- -seemed snappier for least coast tight skiing.
 
Where does Epic's advice come from? I'd say it comes from the 100+ days per year he spends skiing and TEACHING here on the 'least coast'... teaching exactly what the OP is asking about.
post #7 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofun3 View Post




Where does the twin tip thing come from? - "I am looking for an all-mountain ski that will allow me to improve my skills on groomers, moguls and in the trees"

Go with the 8k - great for what you're looking to do on the least coast. Also - (I have a bunch of pairs), I prefer the older ones- -seemed snappier for least coast tight skiing.
 

ummmm twin tips can rock in bumps and trees due to having generally softer tails.

and a good skier can outski most people on groomer on the right stiff enough twin.
post #8 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofun3 View Post


Go with the 8k - great for what you're looking to do on the least coast. Also - (I have a bunch of pairs), I prefer the older ones- -seemed snappier for least coast tight skiing.

 


Without being confrontational, the 8k is neither here nor there.

Being 18 a twin tip makes sense.  You will have a hard time finding the Karma, but it would be a great choice.  Good float, OK for the bumps, great performance considering the wide ability.  Same with the Bridge.

I would encourage you to get something more technical with great edge hold - high performance, carving ski.  This type of ski would be good for skill development.  A very forgiving high performance ski would be the Head Magnum, 170 for you.

But then again, I am an old boy so what do I know.

I also liked your comment about skiing as a lifetime sport.  It has made a huge difference in mine
post #9 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post



Where does Epic's advice come from? I'd say it comes from the 100+ days per year he spends skiing and TEACHING here on the 'least coast'... teaching exactly what the OP is asking about.
 

Is that also where the AC50 for MRG came from?
post #10 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofun3 View Post

Is that also where the AC50 for MRG came from?

"I don't know, I didn't go to Burger King" - Vincent Vega.
post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofun3 View Post

Is that also where the AC50 for MRG came from?

Pretty much. Yeah. You know here at Stowe we have these trails called Chinclip, Goat, Starr and Lookout that also have no snowmaking and no grooming. I don't think they're a whole lot different than what you find at MRG. I happen to think the AC50 is a fine ski for that sort of thing. If you don't, that's fine, whatever. Go out on your boat, have a Mojito or whatever you drink in FL and roll your eyes some more. 
post #12 of 26
Thread Starter 
Anywho....

This is the first time I have been suggested/thought about twin tips. While the NE is primarily groomers, and they are fun, I really hope to break into mouguls and off-piste/tree a lot more, and as much as possible. While ripping a good groomer is always fun, I like the challenge of having to pick a line rapidly and then executing your plan. Are twin tips generally thought of as better for tree/moguls? I don't know much about them, but my general impression is that they are a bit faster turning because of their shaped ends. If this incorrect, sorry for the ignorance!
post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKiss20 View Post

Anywho....

This is the first time I have been suggested/thought about twin tips. While the NE is primarily groomers, and they are fun, I really hope to break into mouguls and off-piste/tree a lot more, and as much as possible. While ripping a good groomer is always fun, I like the challenge of having to pick a line rapidly and then executing your plan. Are twin tips generally thought of as better for tree/moguls? I don't know much about them, but my general impression is that they are a bit faster turning because of their shaped ends. If this incorrect, sorry for the ignorance!

no you are correct Twin tips will generally be 'easier"  off trail than most flat(er) tailed skis. Better? thats really up to the skier IMO they are better though, I can tell you flat out being a 100 plus day a year skier who generally disdains groomers(but cna certianly ski them pretty good) I would almost always choose a twin for off piste any where. 
post #14 of 26
 Can one of you elaborate on the twin-tip for off piste idea?  I must admit I don't pay that much attention to the tails of skis, though now that I think about it I notice some skis have more of a tendency for the tail to get hung up than others (the Enforcer comes to mind as one where I noticed it).

Is it just that the twin keeps the tail from getting buried on non-perfect turns, or is there something else going on?
post #15 of 26
A ski with a softer tail will be less effective at getting force to the back of the ski.  Less force rotating you when you're going straight means less tip dive.  Less force when your turning means less holding on to the turn in general, and easier to have it slip over stuff when having it hold on might hurt you.  I guess you could also get out of dead-ends by backing out switch on a twin tip.  The downside is no stiff tail = weak forces from the rear of the ski.  If you know what do do with that force it can be helpful.   There is a balance.  IMHO the B2 should be soft enough for your needs.
post #16 of 26
Atomic Blackeye, Fischer Watea 78, for twins the kids in our group use K2 Extreme
post #17 of 26
I concur on the twintip. A twintip is less likely to get hung up on the lip of a bump or on a tree as you pass it. They are also typically slightly softer, which will allow more slipping and scrubbing in the trees. And the idea of backing out of a tight spot is also true. I've watched numerous friends try to back out of a spot and end up on their backs because their tails have caught on something.

As for where to look, I'd suggest Evogear.com, since you're looking used. They grade their used equipment, and are pretty good on price. I bought a pair of used Dynastars from them this offseason, in their 'standard' used category. They are in darn good condtion, the only problems are very slight cosmetic blemishes. All in all, a quality operation.

And I sympathize with being the poor college student trying to get together the scratch for equipment. Buy skis now, but try not to spend over $300. Put that last $100 away, and start adding to it, so you can buy yourself a new pair of boots as soon as possible. Boots are by far the most important piece of equipment, and old rentals just will not cut it for advanced skiing.
post #18 of 26
Thread Starter 
Ah so complicated!! Also the fact most of this stuff isn't around to demo is unsettling. I am leaning towards the dynastar 8000s just because I hear so many good things about them. They aren't twin tip, but do have a bit of a shaped tail which I think will help with everything. I am going to try as many as I can at Killington and the like and just go from there.

Thanks a bunch! And @freeski, I hope to get some new boots eventually, but what about boots makes it so important. If it is the fit, I have to say these older boots do suprisingly well, it seems like they were almost made for my foot. What should I look for in boots?

Thanks
post #19 of 26
 Id probably fall into the minority here, but id suggest a more aggressive front side carver, as to me thats what the majority of NE conditions bear.  This is particularly true with manmade, snow.  On that note id look for a used pair of volkl allstars, various stocklis, fisher progressor or the like.  

If you are not working your tail off in college and you think you will be able to get out on some more fresh snow days (e.g. weekdays) you may want to look at something a tad wider/versatile .  Any of the head monster series comes to mind, as there are usually some around used.   The mantra might be a nice choice but its probably going to go over budget used. 

I have not sued any twin tips in the east so i cant comment on their performance there, but if you go that route, im sure you could not lose with a used prophet/karhu 90, or maybe the scott punisher.  They seem to be generally praised. 

I havent skid the 8000s in a long while, but i think you may outgrew em quicker then you think.  Just my two cents.
post #20 of 26
I agree with an earlier opinion of the Volkl Bridge. An all mountain twin tip that will go anywhere in any conditions.Great in the trees and bumps and still enough shape to tackle groomers.Also, boots are the most important piece of equipment. Why put lousy tires on a performance car?  Hope this helps
post #21 of 26
Another vote here for the Bridge or the earlier Karma. The Karma will handle everything you'll encounter in the NE except true ice, is amazingly versatile, and carves up a storm. It's my daily driver here in Michigan.
post #22 of 26
Thread Starter 
The Karma, and the Bridge especially seem to be a bit on the wider waist end, especially for the NE no? 91mm seems like quite a bit...but I defer to your expertise.
post #23 of 26
freeski919 is right.  that's boot money.  why are boots so important?  the skis only do what the feet tell them to do.  when the boot is a poor translator you have problems.  the fit for the boot, ideally, is so precise that when the foot makes the slightest movement it's immediately translated to the ski.

a lot of people hunt for equipment improvements (what I mean to say it that the thinking is that if I get really good stuff it will make me a better skier) ... if that's the case boots win hands down.

the skis come next ... find something that fits you (length + stiffness).  the stuff all the guys have mentioned about different skis ... it's pennies on the dollar.  the average intermediate skier can't feel the nuance of difference between all of that stuff but you will notice you have way more control with a well-fitting boot.

beware ... boots that fit well are usually ONLY comfortable when sliding downhill. 

oh, and epic, I owe you a beer for the laugh you gave me!  nicely done.

good luck, akiss20!
post #24 of 26
Well I have skied in powder in the east much much  deeper then shin deep, so I think if you want to ski in conditions like that you are going to want a wider ski then you might think you need.  Also for the trips out west a wider ski would be nice =P  For you I would go with anything from 85mm to 100mm waisted ski. Dont let the width scare you. Wide skis preform superbly well on groomers as well as deep snow. The skis you mentioned seem okay but I really recommend going bigger then 70mm. Some skis you might consider are: Volkl Bridge 92mm, Line Prophet 90 90mm, and the K2 Extreme 85mm is a great all mountain ski too. Now I know all these skis are twintips. However even if you never go near a terrain park they are still just phenomenal skis, and I think for the kind of skiing you want to do "tight east coast trees and pow" they are perfect. They will have plenty of float and will be quick and snappy off piste or on piste, as twin tips generally ski short.  In my opinion Twintips are so much more versatile and look way cooler then traditional Alpine skis. Anyway if you are on a budget of 400 you can probably find the skis I mention for around that. I think the Extreme is 470$  and the P90 at Al's Ski barn is $430

here are the links

K2 Extreme
http://www.evogear.com/skis/k2-extreme-2010.aspx?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_campaign=googlebase

Line P90
http://www.untracked.com/p2620c11b88lr-Froogle-09_line_prophet_90_allmountain_freeride_skis.html

great deal on Volkl Bridges only 450$
http://www.untracked.com/p2658c44b53lr-Froogle-09_volkl_bridge_twin_tip_freeride_skis.html

oh P.S. I own Prophet 90s and I love them they are so quick in the trees yet they are just amazing on groomers. They carve like a dream.

Good luck hope you find somthing so you can get out and rip some deep pow!!!
post #25 of 26
 honestly to those who say skiing at in the east is all groomers should really change your resorts or mind set. the groomers always have the icest FING snow on them. Everywhere else you can find soft snow\ even powder.

 I have had untracked turns nearly everyday at Stowe.

Just saying first thing I do to anyone on carvers take them in the woods.......because groomers are pretty freaking icey around here. and Ice well sucks.
post #26 of 26
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the further recommendations. I demoed some skis at sugarbush, including a nordica 85mm waist, but ultimately went with the monster 78s (bought from MikeC here!). I really liked them, and they handled well enough in the glades for what I was doing. Boots will come soon enough, but I already had a pair that works pretty well and wanted to get the point where I could hop on a bus and actually go skiing. New boots are good, but being able to practice more easily is even better!

Thanks all!
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