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Angulate / Edge

post #1 of 2
Thread Starter 
Physics Man:

1) First let's define angulation correctly as it is done in professional ski circles: I refer you to Ellen Post Foster's book, Skiing and the Art of Carving for this definition. It is as follows: "In an angulated position,the upper body stays relatively vertical,with shoulders level, while the lower body(hip angulation)or the lower legs(knee angulation)are at a slant to the snow." Further,"Angulation allows you to stay in balance on an edged ski by creating lateral angles in the body."

Now let's proceed: 2)I feel the male vs female differences in angulation will not change, due to typically more joint range of motion in the female vs the male racer as I originally said,without regard for stance width,provided we observe the differences in hip angulation between the two as a percentage relative to the change in stance width.

For example-If stance width is increased in both racers, the opportunity for increased angulation and higher edge angles in each racer is proportionately increased, however the female racer still retains greater flexibility(generally speaking) and thus exhibits more significant hip angulation then the male racer,ie-lateral angles developed.

3) Since I'm not a snowboarder I can't respond to your question # 2.

4)I'm looking at both racers throughout the turn as both the turn and,therefore hip angulation develop. Remember that these movements are dynamic and never stop developing from turn to turn.

5)My answer to your question #3 is yes. As a suggestion, you should look into ski magazines' archives of racing photos from the late 60's, which will show that even on straight skis vs today's shaped skis, female racer's in GS turns frequently exhibited significantly greater hip angulation then their male counterparts.

6)Let me try to answer your question in skiing terminology, since your physics terminology is well above my mathmatical skills, how the effects of increasing centrifical force causes the need to develop greater angulation to offset its effect, and the resultant effect on edge angle.

When either racer starts into say a high speed GS turn, forces build to pull the racer off their feet to the outside of the turn,ie-centrifugal force at word. To offset this effect,the racer can do one of two things, a)lean uphill with the outside hand, arm, and shoulder higher than the inside same body parts, causing an inclined position, which results in decreasing edge angle and possible booting out or a slide sideways, or b)tip their lower leg into the hill while simultaneously tipping their torso out over their outside ski,resulting in a more vertical upper body and thus increasing hip angulation to offset the centrifugal force, which provides for increased edge angle and less sliding sideways.This is your "mechanical equilibrium" concept.

Finally I would like to thank Lisamarie for her view, since that is what I was originally getting at with my "need for resistance" comment. As Lisamarie states that balancing flexibility and strength,while in dynamic motion,is critical.


<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ October 18, 2001 05:04 AM: Message edited 2 times, by whtmt ]</font>
post #2 of 2
Hey White Mtn, somehow your response to me showed up in this separate thread. Why don't you copy this last post of yours over to the old thread, and kill this thread so as to keep everything together and not confuse people. I would do it myself, except that only the thread starter has the necessary permissions.

I'm still in meetings today and tmmrw, so I can't do long posts right now. I shall return - grin.

Tom / PM
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