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Video Movement Analysis Please Critique

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
post #2 of 19
Your outside hand causes you to over rotate, your inner hand should be higher than your outside hand or at least equal in height. You just ski "park and ride", meaning no dynamics in your legwork just stiff and your ski probably feels dead.
post #3 of 19
It's a bit boring and robotic since all you do is move from one static position to another. We call it riding the sidecut because you are not very active outside of the transition from one set of edge to the next. You have good balance but you're not showing us much range of motion in the legs, or the hips. Which leaves me with the questions,
What else can you do?
How's your bump skiing?
Ever race slalom?
Don't get me wrong you look comfortable and competent just not very proactively involved. 
post #4 of 19
Thread Starter 
So from the first post, I gather that I need to raise my inside hand up i.e. more hip angulation (right?) .

when you say ROM for legs -> retracting the inside leg and extending the outside leg? I assume you called my skiing static because there was none of this during the turns.

What do you mean when you say rom for hips? 

As for answers to your questions.

I'm just a recreational skier wanting to get better all around. I'm usually off piste or bc skiing though and I've been neglecting groomed runs for a while. My bump skiing is OK and I think my ROM on it is much better on those slopes. No I 've never done ski racing.

Is there any drills you can recommend to make my skiing more less static and dynamic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

It's a bit boring and robotic since all you do is move from one static position to another. We call it riding the sidecut because you are not very active outside of the transition from one set of edge to the next. You have good balance but you're not showing us much range of motion in the legs, or the hips. Which leaves me with the questions,
What else can you do?
How's your bump skiing?
Ever race slalom?
Don't get me wrong you look comfortable and competent just not very proactively involved. 
post #5 of 19
Thread Starter 
One more thign...you said I'm over rotating. . . So  I assume looking more towards the fall line is what I should be doing (i.e. counter rotating)... I've heard different opinions on this matter. Any clarifications would be appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyang View Post

So from the first post, I gather that I need to raise my inside hand up i.e. more hip angulation (right?) .

when you say ROM for legs -> retracting the inside leg and extending the outside leg? I assume you called my skiing static because there was none of this during the turns.

What do you mean when you say rom for hips? 

As for answers to your questions.

I'm just a recreational skier wanting to get better all around. I'm usually off piste or bc skiing though and I've been neglecting groomed runs for a while. My bump skiing is OK and I think my ROM on it is much better on those slopes. No I 've never done ski racing.

Is there any drills you can recommend to make my skiing more less static and dynamic?

Quote:


 
post #6 of 19
Did not read any of the feedback you got here above so you have my unbiassed short merciless MA. Great skiing jyang. Good rhythm and nice arcs. Good flow. You are well forward in your stance and your stance looks solid. Now you want to improve. IMO there is one major flaw in your skiing that you need to fix and that is the way you use your hips. Two things you need to look into are: rotating your hips out in the turn and staying square through out the turn. All causing banking, loss of outside ski pressure and tail washing and skidding.

I was thaught the hips are the most essential part of your body when skiing. Keep them in the right place. That is where your force is comming from. By doing that you will be bending sideways at your hip, angulation. Moving the hips into the turn. That will improve your outside ski pressure, increase your edge angles, create turn furces and improve your balance. To do this try to bend sideways at the hip as turn forces build up and as you come through the fall line keep your upper body facing somewhat downhill. This is called counter. Keep your shoulders levelled. Tip your outside shoulder down and raice the inside shoulder. You do two major flaws IMO: rotating your hips out which you can fix by angulation and staying square to your skis which can be fixed by angulation and counter.
post #7 of 19
As a general rule if your not flexing, you should be extending, if you're not increasing edge angle you should be reducing it. You're rushing to get into a position and then you stop moving and just ride the ski through the rest of the turn. Slow down the transition to an edge, let it build over a couple more ski lengths work the skis harder when you get there, then don't linger there, begin the transition off that edge a few ski lengths earlier. Think constant motion instead of short burst of movement followed by passively riding the skis. 
Edited by justanotherskipro - 12/2/09 at 4:21pm
post #8 of 19

jyang, I would not worrie too much about being static. That can mean so many things. A statue is static but a person standing can be very dynamic even if he is not mooving. Im saying this only because Im static myself .

post #9 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

Don't be in such a rush to arrive at a position then stop moving once you're there. Keep moving and your skis will reward you with even higher performance.  

This is typical for square skiing.
post #10 of 19
What your doing now: Turn left. Turn right. Turn left. Turn right....
What you might like to try doing for fun:  Turn right, turning harder right, sharper, turn harder! No, harder still. ok. ease up a little, not so hard, a little less right turning, less, less,  OK now turn left, just a little, a little more left, harder left, really sharp left, sharper!  Harder!  Good ease up.

Continue to make your turn sharper by tipping your skis more right up until you reach the middle of the turn and then gradually make it less sharp by tipping your skis less until you are transitioning and then repeat. 

Think about tipping the skis and making that outside edge bite into the snow while you balance along it. 
post #11 of 19
Jyang, some good smooth laid back easy going banked turns.  You've gotten some good MA from the experts here.  A couple of exercises I have used to help get me angulated might be worth trying.  I would suggest working on angulation first because IMHO as you practice doing that, you will begin to counter more automatically.  Counter allows you to angulate more and easier.

With no poles (or lots of free room if you do) put your arms directly out to the side from your shoulders (like a big T).  Now ski down the hill keeping those shoulders and arms parallel to the slope.  This means that at the beginning of a left hand turn, your right arm and shoulder should be pointing uphill and the left shoulder and arm should be pointing downhill.  At the fall line, both arms should be equidistant from the snow, right?  In the lower half of the turn they should be tipping the other way.
As you begin playing with this, you might be bending your torso to tip the shoulders to keep them level and thats OK to begin with.  But raising and lowering the arms independant of the shoulders is cheating.  The goal however, is to tip the hips parallel to the slope (and therefore the shoulders). 
Try this just standing up.  You can tip your shoulders by bending your torso and weight stays over both feet and the hips remain in place.  Now try tipping by using your hips.  The hips have to move to the side and your weight shifts on your feet (big toe little toe for me!).  Try to get that same feeling on the slopes.

Another exercise is to press both poles baskets into the snow in front of your toes and to the side.  Ski and try to maintain that same pressure all the time throughout the turn.  Chances are, it will be difficult to keep that uphill pole touching the snow all the time.  I don't like this excercise as much since it puts me in too much of a crouch but as a focus for keeping shoulders parallel to the slope, it's an eye opener and it works great.

Good luck!
post #12 of 19
Thread Starter 
WOW, thanks for the great feedbacks!!!
post #13 of 19
Thread Starter 
Again, thank you all for the feedback. I was hoping I could get some clarification though.

So the "static" issue is really caused by not having enough hip angulation and counter.

I'm glad you guys brought that point up since I've been working on counter and angulation for few seasons. Unfortunately, many "experts" I've asked about these things have not been able to give me good answers.

From my understanding,

Angulation is bending of the hip left and right during the turn (not forward and backward). And this is GOOD thing to do. I've been trying emphasise this in my skiing but i always found that my current hip position makes angulation difficult (does this makes sense?)

Now for counter. Is this same as counter rotation? where if your upper body turns slightly to the right if you are turning left? i.e. you are facing the down hill all the time?  . . . I was always taught that your upper body should be square to the skis.... I guess not.. please, any clarification on this would be appreciated.
post #14 of 19
Thread Starter 
Sorry for another follow up haha.

So I guess what you guys are saying when I need to counter, is that during the red circle step, I have my body facing where the ski is goign i.e. the body line is perpendicular (or pararell dpending on what you call body line". Instead, I should have my body facing slightly towards the outside ski.. Right?

I'm just trying this leaned against a desk and it seems like hip angulation is easier this way too...

Am I on the right track ?

post #15 of 19
Yep that's right jyang... Counter rotation (a.k.a. facing the outside of the turn) should be a result of steering with the lower body. If you have some counter rotation it is easier to create angulation with the hip joints (the joint capable of creating the biggest angles). If you increase this angulation progressively throughout the turn, you will capture a lot more energy and performance out of your skis.
post #16 of 19
Jyang, love Barnes picture you used.  Take a closer look and you will see faint lines across the tips of the skis and the front of the hands in each mini skier.  This showing the amount the skis are offset during a turn (the inside one being a bit ahead of the outside one in the belly of the turn).  The line across the hands is parallel to the one across the ski tips and depicts the amount of counter your torso (shoulders and hips) should have.  Note that at neutral (5, 13 & 21) the tips are even and there is no counter.

I would be careful in using the term counter rotation versus counter.  I think they mean slightly different things.  As I think of it, counter rotation is the moving of the upper body in one direction while the lower body goes the opposite way.  An equal and opposite reaction.  Counter is an offset between the upper and lower body. 

You are absolutely correct in that angulation is not just moving the hips left or right.  As you found out, as you angulate with a little bit of coutner, you can go further, easier (and stronger).  You may also notice that the outside leg stays long and the inside has to bend a bit more - is shorter.  This is the beginning of the dynamic skiing JAS and Ghost are talking about.

Cheers!
post #17 of 19
Looks you will get it. If you do not have anyone to watch you on the slopes, try to over do the counter rotation and then try to ski with an extreme rotation as you have done so. That way helps you to filter out what feels good and what does not. This way you may learn to "see" yourself as you ski.
And you can do that with pretty much everything. Like putting your inside hand into the snow as you turn and your outside hand way up and then try to put your outside hand onto your boot and your inside hand way up. (Make sure you lean sideways, not just forward)
Do the do's but also do the don'ts so that you feel the difference.
post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyang View Post

Again, thank you all for the feedback. I was hoping I could get some clarification though.

1. So the "static" issue is really caused by not having enough hip angulation and counter.

I'm glad you guys brought that point up since I've been working on counter and angulation for few seasons. Unfortunately, many "experts" I've asked about these things have not been able to give me good answers.

From my understanding,

Angulation is bending of the hip left and right during the turn (not forward and backward). And this is GOOD thing to do. I've been trying emphasise this in my skiing but i always found that my current hip position makes angulation difficult (does this makes sense?)

Now for counter. Is this same as counter rotation? where if your upper body turns slightly to the right if you are turning left? i.e. you are facing the down hill all the time?  . . . I was always taught that your upper body should be square to the skis.... I guess not.. please, any clarification on this would be appreciated.

 

1. Wow! I'm not sure why using more angulation would cure a lack of movement. The root problem is not the position you assume as much as the fact that you assume a position and stop moving. The sum of forces change during a turn, your stance needs to continue to change to keep the BoS and the CoM aligned with the those forces. Balance is like quicksilver, it dosen't stay in one place very long. If you stay in one place too long you aren't going to be balanced now are you. The solution here is to keep moving.

2. Angulation includes a lateral and a fore / aft component. It also isn't limited to the hip joints. Inversion / eversion of the ankles, knee angulation, flexing of the spine, and even how the arms and shoulders are used are all involved. Which I suspect is why you find it difficult to use angulation.

3. Perhaps if we expand on the terms a bit this will make more sense.
A countered stance is an outcome. A result if you will. Using more counter is a mis nomer that typically means getting into a more countered stance. How you get into a countered stance involves a variety of movement options known as counter rotary movements. The options begin with turning the upper body while holding the hips and legs stationary, moving the upper body one way and the hips and legs another, or turning the legs while holding the body stationary. We can use these options exclusively or in combination though.

You mentioned two phrases that need to be discussed. Look at the graphic you posted and tell me where the body faces. Notice it only face directly down the hill briefly in between frames 8&9 and 16&17. It's not turned across the hill at the apex either.
post #19 of 19
Thread Starter 
wow. I totally get it now ..at least in theory haha.

I'm gonna try to get some private lesson from Jas/Don in the near future.

Thank you all for the great input. This has been a very educational and I appreciate you guys taking the time to read and give feed back.
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