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DIN sin..... - Page 2

post #31 of 76
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LindaA:
Yes Phil...

Iam home now so I checked'em...they are the M5.1s.

glad its not just me or my old ski shop...i was begining to think my skis were possessed and needed and exorcisim to keep them from running off on their own.

Need new stuff, anyway. But ill have to put up with it for the beginning of the season..new boots first.


51's or 5.1's? 51's were the worst for pre releasing...5.1's have the newer Logic toe, not as prone as the older ones. Still I like my Solomons, rarely pre release.
post #32 of 76
Thread Starter 
uhh, does anyone know a catholic preist?

they are the 5.1s and they do have the Logic technogy..I had thought that the shop tech had been singing praises about elasticity when I bought em. I asked for decent bindings, without alot of bells and whistles.

they had a model 51? well, thats confusing.
post #33 of 76
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LindaA:
uhh, does anyone know a catholic preist?

I had thought that the shop tech had been singing praises about elasticity when I bought em. I asked for decent bindings, without alot of bells and whistles.


There is your problem.. you didn't get the bells and wistles!

A Priest and a Rabbi walk into a ski shop....
post #34 of 76
No way Lars, that chute JW lost his ski in wasn't a bit over 40 degrees. [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]
post #35 of 76
Thread Starter 
So I sat down last night and took a good look at my bindings, (first time I did so due to the dire warnings I got about setting your own..) "ok, indicator window...where is the indicator window.." ooooohhh, thats that HUGE thing on the toe peice... so I grabbed a screwdriver, stuck it in the hole in the front and turned...GASP! the needle moved...

ooooooooooohhhhh. so THATS all it is......

so I sat in my bedroom last night with the door closed, adjusting my bindings...all secretive-like...

I feel dirty.
post #36 of 76
and then, she had a cigarette
post #37 of 76
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LindaA:
ooooooooooohhhhh. so THATS all it is......

ya done good..you go girl!

post #38 of 76
Linda -

You should have no problem skiing at a 9-10 range, but there's really no need to if you aren't pre-releasing. Just go up in 1 point increments until you stop pre-releasing or find a comfortable release point.

Weight is only one factor in settings, the mechanical leverage due to your height and boot sole length, and your strength, are also very important.

I come in at 8 on the (3) scale and ski a 12 or greater din on ANY binding. I come flying out at 8 on every run.

Little known fact: there has been a 3+ scale added to the charts this year which is pretty much in line with what I've skied for years.

post #39 of 76
funny story: back on my college ski team during our first week of training, i was working on my starts, kicking out of the gate. the coach thought i was doing pretty good and asked me to demonstrate for the team, especially the newbies. so with the team watching me, i do my start, pop out of my bindings, and fall face first over my skis and face first into some powder (i had a pretty agressive/powerful start motion [img]smile.gif[/img].

so, as the team laughs hysterically (and i did too!), i step back in, try it again, and face plant again! it was a hoot!

soooo, i of course cranked up my bindings and that solved that problem. only problem was i forgot to de-crank them when i wasn't racing. during a powder day at Magic Mountain, VT, i was on a PP trail and ran into foot deep fluff on the side. i literally stopped, and just fell over in slow motion. i'm surprised i didn't hurt myself, but my skis did break under the binding, cause (duh) i forgot to de-crank my bindings.

minor adjustments depending upon conditions and ski style are definately helpful as they can reduce injury, ski breaks, etc. i definately think it's a good idea to decrease the DIN in heavy powder, i learned the hard way at the price of $500+.
post #40 of 76
Linda, despite skiing a lot every Winter, Out West and in Europe, I have not come out of my bidings in about twenty years, neither has my wife.

And I always had my bindings set so I could walk out of them at the bottom of the slope without using my poles to snap open the heel.

Din setting about 5 or less. I weigh 240 pounds and am 6'1" tall and 70 years old in a few month.

I tell you what the secret is no matter what terrain you ski in. It is to not put any undue stress on the bindings, not twisting no jerking, no yanking. Just ski over your skis all the time.

In order for the bindings to release in your case while skiing, you must be doing something to stress them. They are meant to just hold you onto your skis and ONLY release if you do something untoward, like falling or twisting or yanking or jerking, then they should release.

There is a film around of Stein Ericksen in a slalom race and halfway through his cable binding popped open on one ski and all that held him on was the lips of the toe piece, which were small by today's standards.

He not only finished the race, he won it. Now that is being over your skis.

So before you put your limbs at risk with a higher DIN setting, maybe you ought to find out how you can ski without putting a twist at your foot level.

Modern skis with lifter plates now allow the skis to flex even while skiing through the troughs in a mogul field and the flexing skis will not affect the bindings.

post #41 of 76
I'm not sure why but I have had a ski come off with the bindings set at 8 1/2 while going straight (at high speed) just from going over some irregularities in the snow--like ripples. It has only happened a couple of times and it't possible I didn't clean my boots off enough.
post #42 of 76
I used to get ticked off at my bindings because I thought they pre-released all the time. When I started thinking about it, the only time they released was when I was landing a jump, cliff, or right when I dropped into a steep chute. Thats when I decided to start turning my DIN up. I see a lot of you here ski at a lower DIN than recommended, and a lot of you guys probably don't hit the jumps or cliffs anymore. But what I'm wondering is, do some of you who ski at a lower DIN setting try hitting jumps at all?, and do you pop out then? I truly hope that question doesn't sound sarcastic because its not meant to be, I am really interested.
post #43 of 76
Check out Vermont Ski Safety for some thoughts on what to do if you're releasing frequently from your bindings at your recommended DIN. As someone else pointed out earlier, it's important to figure out if it's the heel or toe that's releasing consistently.

I ski at DIN 5.5 on Tyrolia PS bindings and I weight 150 lb. Ski groomed and off-piste at reasonable speeds. I'll take the occasional kicker but no serious air or no-fall terrain. I think that if you're not skiing hairy terrain or hucking big jumps or racing then there's somthing wrong if you need to crank your bindings way above your recommended DIN. Just my 2ยข,
post #44 of 76
7 Mary 3, it's not the jumping, it's the landing.

Your landing, anytime, should be a wooossssh, not a bang or a slap.

While you are in the air you need to drop your ski tips so they are the first to make contact with the snow and as the rest of your skis make contact, it is a fast, but gradual, consecutive thing as you lay the surface of the skis onto the snow.

Ther is absolutely no stress on the bindigs that way, and since in order to drop the tips, you have pulled your feet back under you, you will land in perfect balance.

That also holds true of a cross jump where you land with the skis across the fall line like in a steep chute. Make sure that your tips hit the snow while your tail are still a foot off the snow, and your biding release troubles will go away.

If you land with the whole edge of the skis you've got a bang and if your tails land first you have a slap, and both say to the bidings: "This skier is in trouble, we better release", as they should.

post #45 of 76
Ott, what you are saying works well on landings that have enough slope to them, but there are times when one might over shoot the landing into the flats. Now, it might not be completely flat where as you would probably yard sale no matter what, but flat enough to where even if you land with the tips, your skis are still going to slap. I've always had a tendency to go a little too big and I've felt the pain afterwards, but in a majority of those incidences, if my binding had not released I could have easily skied away. By the way, that was a good explanation you gave on how to stick a landing.
post #46 of 76
7 Mary 3, I am with Ott on this one. I have skied for 40 years with my bindings at or below DIN and have not had a serious knee injury yet. I use to huck my share of cliffs and stuff. I still ski relatively steep stuff but try to stay out of stuff that gets the adrenaline flowing.
The only reason that I have my DIN set as high as I do is because I like to leverage the fronts of the skis with plenty of torque to really hook the top of my turns and shorten them. I will step out of the bindings doing this at a lower setting. That is why my DIN is one point higher in the rear but still below recommended. The dumbest thing that I do just for demonstration is completely unbuckle my boots and ski bumps without poles. This usually gets the point across that skiing bumps isn't about pounding.
My many years of telemark skiing has been a great benefit to staying centered.
post #47 of 76
Thread Starter 
Now that would make sense. One of my main problems has always been the need to quiet myself...especially in terrain I have a tendency to ski like a maniac kangaroo thats had 12 cups of coffee on the lift... :
post #48 of 76
>>>but flat enough to where even if you land with the tips, your skis are still going to slap. I've always had a tendency to go a little too big and I've felt the pain afterwards, but in a majority of those incidences, if my binding had not released I could have easily skied away<<<

In those cases the bindigs should release. You should practice reaching in those cases.

Reaching means to extend your legs fully without locking them, then as you land, lay down the skis and sink to absorb the shock with your knees. That way the bindings will not feel a shock. Slapping either the tails or the tips is a mistake . Which, BTW, is made even by world class racers at times, so don't feel bad when it happens to you, just try to eliminate it.

I would often reach with one leg first, which also helps if you get off balance to either side while in the air. If you get a lean to one side during flight, reach the ski on that side so it contacts first and it will center you...

post #49 of 76
Ott, I completely see what you are getting at, but you can be the best "reacher" in the world and your legs and body still can't absorb all the shock as a result of a flat landing without some of that torque being put on the bindings. I'm not condoning cranking your DIN way up, but for some of us younger folks who ride the terrain park a lot, for me at least, it helps to have my DIN turned up a notch or so to avoid those pre-release problems. To be honest with you, I haven't touched the DIN on my Look bindings and I haven't had a problem with them, but I have had some problems with my Sollie's in the exact cases I've previously mentioned.
post #50 of 76
7 Mary 3, do as you please, as long as you are aware of the consequences.

post #51 of 76
One thing to add, they have been experimenting with different din settings for park skiing, if we will ever see them on charts is to be seen. But if they do come out we will see different settings for toes and heels. This is what a guy from Vermont Ski Workshop said a yr ago.
But on the charts now we have an option to have a 3+ or a 1- so all these cocky bastids have one more level to impress their girlfriends with... :
post #52 of 76
One thing to watch out for- The ego thing- which some have mentioned here. "I'm a good skier, and good skiers always have them cranked! That proves I'm good. If my buddies saw my dins lower they would laugh!"

A friend of mine had his cranked. He ended up in the hospital with knee problems for it.

I didn't know that some consider the chart outdated and up for review. Interesting. Perhaps it remains as is because they know many will crank them up more even if the chart is revised upward. Just a guess.

Yes. At age 50 move up one cell (toward the top of the chart).

Big problem- Some people get their skis at the shop, the tech shows them the DIN on the service order and then shows that the ski bindings match what's on paper, then they sign it. They go home and crank the DINS!!!

Sometimes it happens- a bad fall and they get hurt and end up in the hospital. To cover medical costs they accuse the shop. But first, they run the DINS back down to shop settings! This happened on time at our shop. They didn't get away with it.
post #53 of 76
It really just depends on how you ski and what you ski. If you ski hard and notice your skis coming off all the time when they shouldn't, then you need to turn em up! And just the opposite if you ski mellow. Din em according to how you ski and wether or not they are coming off/staying on too much.
I'm 175-180 and 6'1" and I ski at din 14, which is way too high according to the chart. The chart says din 8 for me.
But anyway, just my thoughts on it.
post #54 of 76
>>>If you ski hard and notice your skis coming off all the time when they shouldn't, then you need to turn em up! <<<

Well, Milosh, if it works for you...BUT, just a suggestion, you may try to practice skiing so even if you ski real hard, you are not thrown around so hard, especially at the bindnig level, that you put enough strees on them that they release at the setting prescribed for you.

The bindings are meant to release to save your bones, so if they release, they are saving your bones. If you ski so "aggressive" that you bounce back and forth and twist enough for the bindings to release, you need to smoothen out.

Just a suggestion... ...Ott
post #55 of 76
yeah, wasn't tryin to start controversy.
Just tellin ya how one guys does it here out west.
post #56 of 76
OK, Milosh, it's up to you, but what good are scientifically researched DIN settings if you ignore them?

FYI for those who don't know: DIN=Deutsche Industrie Norm= German Industrial Norms. They are world wide accepted norms for anyhting from strengths of chair legs to settings of ski bindings.

No controversy, Milosh, you are not alone in cranking up the settings when coming out of the bindings instead of not stressing them. There are legions of you.

post #57 of 76
The form we fill out in the Ski Patrol Aid Room for each injury we take off the hill has a section for recording DIN of the injured skier's bindings. If the injured skier has rentals from the ski area shop, we record that also, and keep the skis.
post #58 of 76
Lucky: I would check the bottoms of the boots for wear at the toe and heel. Most can be replaced.
post #59 of 76
If they keep coming off, I would recommend that before you crank them up, check the forward pressure, boot interfaces and toe height setting. Din 14 sure is high for recreational skiing, but if that is what it takes..
post #60 of 76
Everyone here seems to be under the mistaken belief that pre-releases are the fault of having binding DIN set too low and that they can be fixed by cranking up the setting. The vermont ski safety website has a good discussion on binding release problems. Most of the reasons people raise their release settings are based on false assumptions and expose them to more risk than before.

web page

My personal experience and anecdotal evidence have lead me to go for bindings with the most elasticity, low internal friction and free flex design then stick to your recommended release setting.

You know what they say about guys with large ski boots - they have small DIN settings
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