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Ski Store Advice Confusion

post #1 of 41
Thread Starter 
Yesterday I was at our local ski store replenishing virtually all of my daughter's ski layers (I should buy stock in whatever company makes Chili's).  While there I wandered over to the ski rack and drooled on the skis.  I told the sales guy who came up to me that I planned to demo a variety of skis this season and buy a new pair the latter part of the season.  I gave him my stats (see below)* and said I'd been thinking to demo these skis:
-- Atomic Nomad Blackeye Ti
-- Nordica Nitrous CA
-- Head Peak 78 
(I didn't mention Blizzard because I knew this store doesn't carry it).

This store has dropped Head for this year but had the other two ready to sell.  Nevertheless, he said he wouldn't recommend any of those.  He told me to try:
-- Salomon Lord 
-- Dynastar Sultan 85
-- Line Prophet 90

Should I: (a) do what he says, (b) find another salesperson, (c) move to Utah?

FWIW, last April, when I was at this same store looking at end-of-season deals, a different sales guy told me that the Volkl Tigershark (non-switch) would be just right for me.

*My stats :  5'9", 150#,  level 7;  current skis: Volkl AC-20;  so far have skied mostly groomed slopes;  goals for this season: to "master" glades, ungroomed / off piste, moguls.  East/West skiing ratio: probably 3-1.  Virtually all my ski trips are planned in advance (so I can't time it to be at the slopes right after the big powder dump). 

Thoughts?     
post #2 of 41
Prophet 90's really seem like the best fit for what you're looking for- wide enough for eastern powder yet still nice on groomers- and if you're into terrain park, they'll be fine there, too.  Not sure how they handle moguls, but if you're looking to shralp some glades, this is the ski.

I don't know much about Dynastar's line of skis, and I'm not a fan of Salomon- the Lord isn't really a good Eastern ski, anyway.


Go with the Prophet 90's or find a store that does carry Blizzard.
post #3 of 41
Too many choices, too little time ...

Having had my own share of conflicting advice from salesfolk, I think you should refine what you're looking for before heading off to the shop.  I've certainly found that most of the sales guys are injecting their own biases into the equation.

The LP and Sultans (and the Blizzard Cronus) are much more 50/50 skis that your current AC20s.  They'll be more versatile if you intend to spend a lot of time seeking the ungroomed.  They will be pretty good on the groomers, but won't be as tenacious as a narrower, stiffer ski on the front side.

Skis like the Nitrous and Blackeye (and the Blizzard Magnum series) are more 70/30 skis that will serve better on the front side.  They're also similar, in some ways, to your current AC20s.  They're wider than a pure carver for better performance in ungroomed terrain, but won't be quite as enjoyable in the bumps or trees as the wider, softer skis.

Skiing the East, I definitely want a good front side carver in the quiver.  If you're hanging on to the AC20s, I would look for something more like the LP or Sultans (good review from Dawgcatching in the review forum on the Sultans) as ski #2.  If you want to ditch the AC20s in favor of a new 1-ski quiver, I would probably consider the Nitrous or Blizzard 8.1 (or even the AC30)  ... a bit wider than the AC20s, but still a good 70/30 ski.

Agree with StuckInTheEast on the Solomon Lords ... not a great Eastern ski.

I would also avoid the Tigershark, which is a great front side carver, but won't help you much in the bumps or trees.
post #4 of 41
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys.  When I do get new skis, I will give my AC-20s to my son, so I'll remain a 1-ski quiver guy.  Also, although in my head I'm a 50/50 skier, in reality I'll likely be closer to a 70/30 skier for the next few years at least.  And as long as I live in the East, the majority of my skiing will be in the East: this year I will have 4-8 days out of 20 out West.  So, I want a ski that won't be sub-optimal on groomed slopes -- or at least won't detract from my fun -- but also won't be the limiting factor when I venture off the groomed slopes.
post #5 of 41
 Having had my own share of conflicting advice from salesfolk, I think you should refine what you're looking for before heading off to the shop. I've certainly found that most of the sales guys are injecting their own biases into the equation.

I'll remain a 1-ski quiver guy. Also, although in my head I'm a 50/50 skier, in reality I'll likely be closer to a 70/30 skier for the next few years at least. And as long as I live in the East, the majority of my skiing will be in the East: this year I will have 4-8 days out of 20 out West. So, I want a ski that won't be sub-optimal on groomed slopes -- or at least won't detract from my fun -- but also won't be the limiting factor when I venture off the groomed slopes.


- yeah, stupid salesmen. You want a ski that will be good off piste out west and still fun on eastern groomers, you'll be skiing 70 percent of your time on piste but want a tree ski... why can't these moron shoprats give a simple answer?
post #6 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post


- yeah, stupid salesmen. You want a ski that will be good off piste out west and still fun on eastern groomers, you'll be skiing 70 percent of your time on piste but want a tree ski... why can't these moron shoprats give a simple answer?

LOL.  OK, so I'm a high-maintenance customer...
post #7 of 41
Thread Starter 
FWIW (which may not be much), in this year's Realskiers tests, only 11 skis got both the "deep powder" symbol and the "New England ice" symbol:
--  Atomic Blackeye TI
--  Dynastar Sultan 85
--  Head Peak 88
--  Head Peak 82
--  Kastle MX 88
--  Kastle FX 84
--  Kastle MX 108
--  Line Prophet 90
--  Line Chronic Cryptonite
--  Nordica HR Pro Jet Fuel TI
--  Stockli Rotor 84

Of those, only two -- the Atomic and the Head Peak 82 -- got the "50%+ on-groomed" symbol.  The other nine got the "50%+ off-groomed" symbol.  Interestingly, the Head Peak 82 got both the 50+ on and 50% off groomed symbols -- so either it's quite versatile or its testers are mathematically-challenged.

Also, of those eleven, five got the symbol for "mild" bumps:  Atomic Blackeye, Line Prophet 90, Line Chronic Cryptonite, Kastle MX 88, and Kastle FX 84.

Finally, (drum roll please) two of the 11 skis were awarded the symbol for "true" bumps:  Dynastar Sultan 85 and Stockli Rotor 84.  And while both of these were designated as 50+ off groomed, both also got the parallel lines symbol for groomed slopes.

Caveats:
1.  I did not review the archived test results.
2.  I did not count female-specific skis.
3.  I went through these fast, and so cannot guarantee the accuracy of my results.

geez, just shot half my lunch time....     
post #8 of 41
I suppose they didn't have any Elan in the test? I would put a 82 XTi magfire close to the Peak82, same for an AC30 and an 8.1 or 8.7 .
And from what I read here, K2 PE (or extreme as it is called now) wouldn't be bad either in that list.

What brands did they test?

edit: I could be completely wrong though, in which case I'd love to be corrected!
nice post though, I like the list so far :)
Edited by Frederik - 12/1/09 at 10:14am
post #9 of 41
Thread Starter 


They tested over two dozen brands, including Elan.  None of the Elans got both the powder and the NE ice symbols.  The Magfire 82 XTi got the NE ice symbol but not powder. The K2 Extreme got the powder but not the NE ice symbol -- although it did get the "Western ice" symbol (isn't that an oxymoron?).  Both were awarded the "mild" bumps symbol and both were designated 50+ off groomed.  The Elan, like the Head Peak 82, was also given the 50+ on groomed symbol.   

post #10 of 41
Jimski,

When you talk about skiing in the east, where do you mean?  It could make a difference. 

Smiles
post #11 of 41
Thread Starter 
Smiles,
 
So far in my long (3-year) skiing life, I've skied at the following Eastern slopes:  Wisp, Whitetail, Wintergreen, Smugglers Notch, Sugarloaf.  We're booked to ski at Stowe over this Xmas break.  I intend to hit a lot more places.  Does that help?

Jim
post #12 of 41
In addition to not seeming to be completely clear on what you want, you also have the problem of trying to buy a OSQ for 3 very different regions: mid-atlantic, NE, and west (not sure where you mean by west, that makes a big difference too).  Honestly, regardless if you figure out whether you really want to spend more time on or off trail, you will not be able to find 1 ski that really shines in all three of those areas.  The snow conditions are so different, especially when you bring the mid-atlantic ski areas into the mix.

It's going to be a matter of being honest with yourself about where and how you're going to ski, as well as where and when you want your ski to perform at its best.  All skis are a compromise, you just have to pick what matters most to you.

The three new recommendations you got are because you told the salesman you want to get more into off-trail conditions.  As such, they're good recommendations (well, I'm not a huge fan of the Lord).  Your original 3 thoughts are much more front-side oriented.

So, you didn't get bad advice, you just need to decide what you really want.
post #13 of 41
Thread Starter 
Jao,

I think I am being clear, and honest with myself.  Honestly, I do want to ski in the various conditions and regions that I indicated.  I doubt I'm the first skier in the mid-Atlantic who also skis in the NE and the West (Utah for me so far, but have a trip booked for CO this Spring).

Second, it's not a question for me of "figuring out", a priori, whether I want to spend more time off trail or on trail; I intend to do both, as the mood suits me and the opportunity presents itself, when I'm out skiing.  I'd like to have the skis that will let me do that. 

Third, I am being honest with myself in admitting that I can't have (or, choose not to have) a multiple ski quiver.  Nor am I in denial in thinking that there exists one ski that will "shine" in all the places that I want to ski.  However, from the List of 11 in my post #7 above (recognizing there is nothing sacrosanct about that list), there appear to be several skis that could be a pretty good compromise.  

Finally, if you re-read my initial post, I didn't say I had gotten "bad advice" from the sales guy.  When I posted, I wasn't sure if I had gotten "bad" advice or had "bad" preconceptions coming in.  That's why I posted the question!   In fact, two of the three skis that the sales guy recommended made the List of 11, and only 1 of my three skis made that list (OK, maybe I get another half point for having a Head Peak on my list -- albeit the wrong one).  Looking back on my OP, the one unspoken fact I should have disclosed is that I actually like this store -- I've dropped thousands of $$$ at this place over the years for skis, gear, and ski clothes -- and I trust the people who work there.

So, respectfully, I think you may have misread where I'm coming from on this.      
post #14 of 41
Jimski,

Fair enough, if you think I misinterpreted then feel free to disregard. Whiteroom pointed out some of the conflicting information you'd posted, and you didn't seem to disagree with his point, so I went on the assumption that you still hadn't figured out what you really wanted.

You see a lot of "what ski should I buy" threads from people who say they want one thing, but really want another. If this isn't you, then I take back what I said as it pertains to you, but leave it there for others who may be more confused about what to do. And no, you're definitely not the first person trying to buy a OSQ for very different geographic regions, but it does add another set of compromises to your decision making process.

So, if I ignore everything else, and get back to your original question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimski View Post

Should I: (a) do what he says, (b) find another salesperson, (c) move to Utah?

Neither a or b are necessarily right or wrong.  IMO he gave you decent suggestions for more off-trail biased skis than what you'd been looking at.  c's always a good option, though.
post #15 of 41
Thoughts?..........................welllllll........................

I suspect that the reason that you got different responses in your your ski shop queries is that the various sales guys probably read you differently. This could be teenage stupidity on their part but it could also very well be indecisive communication on your part.

This isn't rocket science and my first impression is that you are looking for a single answer where there honestly isn't one. As WR implied you are throwing out contradictory requirements in the hopes of finding a ski that is (analogy warning)..........both heavy and light. You know that's not possible and neither is perfection in ski choice. What is possible is a reasonable compromise of both sides. That would be what I call a "medium" ski.

When someone says the things to me that you've said here, I plunk them in front of the middle skis in our rack (85-95mm) and then proceed to try and pry out of them what they really want. I generally have to say something like like "heynowww......wadeaminit.....a minute ago you said this and now you are saying that, sooooo.........which is it???"

The contradictory things or requirements that skiers will ask in shops AND online are the key frustration of quality shops everywhere. We know what they'll do well and what they won't. We will tell the customer that if you gain something here....you'll lose something there. That is not what they want to hear. The less than experienced personnel will often say......."Dude....these are just as good on the groomers and bumps but waaaaaay better in powder" The wishful customer sometimes believes this because its the answer he is looking for.

So.......oftentimes the conflicting information is at least partially due to the customer saying things a different way on different days or changing his mind halfway through the sale. Sometimes it is even as simple as the customer seeing that the cool ski that he thought he wanted was being left out of the discussion b/c the sales guy probably didn't think it was appropriate.

Ski shops are often in an impossible situation b/c the model that the customer asks about is sooooo often inappropriate for what they really need.

So.............ummmm............yes indeedy I DO have some thoughts........................

SJ
post #16 of 41
Well said SJ.
post #17 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimski View Post

Second, it's not a question for me of "figuring out", a priori, whether I want to spend more time off trail or on trail; I intend to do both, as the mood suits me and the opportunity presents itself, when I'm out skiing.  I'd like to have the skis that will let me do that. 
 

Jim,

I don't think anyone's asking you to decide, a priori, what you intend to ski ... I think we're just asking what's more important and what you're willing to sacrifice.  A OSQ is a compromise by definition .. If you said you want to have something *better* for off-piste without sacrificing too much edgehold it's different than if you said you're willing to give up hard snow performance for a more dedicated off-piste performer.  It's just where *you* choose to draw the line.

A couple of additional thoughts, though, based on reading your replies ...

*Buy* skis for where you ski the most - in the East ... You can always *rent* big, fat, rockered twin-tips when you hit a powder day out West.

You currently ski mostly groomers, but *intend* to venture more off-piste this year.  With that in mind, I would *recommend* you stay in the 70/30 category, but look for something wider and a bit softer than your AC20s.  Realistically, you'll probably still spend a lot of time on groomed terrain while you're developing your mastery of off-piste skiing. Last year's Head IM78 would have been a good choice, but the word on this year's Peak series has been lukewarm ... would definitely demo before pulling the trigger.

The Sultan and LP should be on the list as Eastern 50/50 skis, but as I said in my first response I would recommend them as the #2 ski.  If you really find yourself spending more time on ungroomed terrain, then you might go that way, but you will sacrifice performance on hardpack. Demo 'em if you can as they might surprise you, but I might wait for a season or two while you build your soft-snow skills.

Finally, remember that it's the driver, not the ride.  I've seen guys bouncing through the trees on race carvers, running Nastar gates on fat park skis and railing boilerplate on a pair of Goats.  Find a ski that feels good, then go off an master the bumps and trees and forget about what you've got on your feet.

Merely my $0.02, of course ... take it for what it's worth
post #18 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldEasternSkier View Post

[...] Last year's Head IM78 would have been a good choice [...]
 

Coincidentally, quickk9 is selling a pair of last year's IM78 in your size for a very reasonable $400.

(Please ignore the fact that quickk9 and I both live in the same town, it would be highly inappropriate to shill for a fellow townie ... just bringing it to your attention )
post #19 of 41
You're basically an eastern skier who can't pick his days. That means that 80% of the time you're going to be skiing on the usual scraped off man-made hardpack. I know this because I'm in the same boat and have been for decades. You may WANT to ski the bumps or the trees or the crud or whatever, but in reality you won't be, because those trails will either be closed or conditions will be so bad for those areas that no one but a masochist would ever try to ski there. With all this in mind, I say forget all the stuff about 50/50 skis and get something that really rocks on hard snow. If you happen to get a good powder day, you'll still have a blast. When you go out west, rent. My two cents.
post #20 of 41
Just get a ski for the hard snow, Fischer WC RC or other top-drawer 15 to 20 m radius ski, and then keep your eyes open for a bargain left-over or used soft snow ski.
post #21 of 41
Thread Starter 
Hey, thanks to everyone -- this is kind of like an AA group.  

Jao -- thanks, and no harm no foul.  Your actual advise made sense: if I want to do different/contradictory things on the slopes with one ski, I should be prepared to accept compromises.  

Qcanoe -- you essentially nailed it: for better or worse, I'm stuck in the East for most of my skiing.  I would amend what you said a little to add that when I do take the 1-2 planned-way-in-advance trip(s) to somewhere west of the Mississippi, I intend to ski the non-hardpack stuff they have out there.  I've heard that sometimes those conditions show up in the East (see BWPA's Stowe trip report last season), but so far I haven't really seen it.  

As I understand it, the recommendations range from: (a) look for "medium" ski (SJ), to (b) get an East hardpack ski and then rent/buy cheap powder (etc.) skis (Ghost, qcanoe, OES).  Apologies to you all for over-simplifiying what you said.  SJ, what "medium" skis would you recommend that I demo?  {Note: my original list of three was what I had thought to be medium skis.} 

OES -- you raise a good question: since a OSQ will be a compromise, what part of performance am I willing to sacrifice?  Actually a tough question.  Last Spring, I skied at Sugarloaf with my son on slopes some of which we could practiclly see our reflections.  I was glad to have a ski that dug in and held a carve.  Two weeks later, out at The Canyons with my daughter -- with the same skis -- I skied lots of groomed blues and blacks with the girls (for which my skis were fine), but one afternoon the other dad and I skied some of the ungroomed blacks (three days after the last snow) off the Tombstone lift.  It was the first time I experienced random piles of snow (as opposed to "organized" moguls).  Although I had fun, I didn't think my skis were up for it -- they dug into the piles as often as going over them. 

So, can I get a ski that will hold a grip on Widowmaker at Sugarloaf and will get above the clumpy snow on Quantum Leap at The Canyons? (i.e., have cake and eat it too -- here I go again...)  Or, do I buy skis for the first and rent for the second? 

Thanks!         
post #22 of 41
 Any one ski you get will be a compromise.   In my book, your compromise should be skewed towards the carving side of things while still have some ability to handle the off-trail conditions in the West.  My advice would be to go for something with not too much sidecut, 80mm+ waist, even flex and not too soft.  I am not into those skis these day, so I cannot suggest anything based on my demos.  From what I read, the new Sultan 85 may fit the billl.  

Alex

P.S. I am also wondering why no one suggested the Mantra and various Mantra clones. 
post #23 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimski View Post

Hey, thanks to everyone -- this is kind of like an AA group.  

Yeah ... these threads should come with standard template:

Quote:
OP: "Hi, my name is Jimski and I have a gear problem."

Everyone: "Hi Jim!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimski View Post

So, can I get a ski that will hold a grip on Widowmaker at Sugarloaf and will get above the clumpy snow on Quantum Leap at The Canyons? (i.e., have cake and eat it too -- here I go again...)  Or, do I buy skis for the first and rent for the second? 
    

The characteristics you love in a hard snow ski (stiff, narrow waist, short radius) will work against you in the softer snow where those skis can get "hooky".  That said, though, the AC20 isn't really a bad ski in the conditions you described.

You may have been suffering from some technique problems that won't get solved with different set of boards.  Habits that you can get away with on the groomers (heel push, "slarved" turns) work when you're on top of the snow, but don't when you're in the snow.  Lots of us (myself included) have to "unlearn" some bad habits when first venturing into off-piste conditions.

So I'm going to stand by my recommendation to stay in the 70/30 category.  Something like the AC30, the Blizzard 8.1 or the Nitrous will give you a bit more width while staying in a ski that's classed as a wide carver.  These will still grab well on Widowmaker, and give you a bit more float on Quantum Leap.  As compromises go, these would be pretty reasonable where you'll be skiing the most.

Then go rent some K2 Pontoons when you're out west ... just for grins
post #24 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimski View Post

 I should be prepared to accept compromises. 
 
 
SJ, what "medium" skis would you recommend that I demo?  {Note: my original list of three was what I had thought to be medium skis.} 

       

OK.....

IMO your first three are on the narrow side of medium and I believe that you could easily get into the mid-80's without major compromises for Eastie conditions. Still.....if you wanted one of those, the Blackeye Ti is a little too hard snow biased for me to recommend it. I have a lot of experience with the Nitrous and some with the Peak 78 and either of those could be fine.

So........here is a range of mid 80's for you to think about.

Watea 84.......IMO too soft snow biased.
K2 Explorer....Ditto and rather bland feeling to boot.

Nordica HR Pro Burner.....Now we are getting somewhere.
Dynastar Sultan 85..........Superb ski
Rossi Phantom 87...........Dead heat with the Sultan
Blizzard Cronus...............Also very, very, good

Blizzard Mag 8.7.............Superb ski but with some bias towards harder snow.
Volkl AC-50....................Way too much hard snow bias for my tastes.

There are of course many others but you could pick any of the four in the middle and have a very good ski for your requirements. I personally like all four of those a lot and would be happy with one of those in my quiver if I still lived in Stowe. I didn't mention twins simply b/c I see no benefit for you in choosing one.

SJ 
post #25 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimski View Post

It was the first time I experienced random piles of snow (as opposed to "organized" moguls).  Although I had fun, I didn't think my skis were up for it -- they dug into the piles as often as going over them.  
        

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldEasternSkier View Post


You may have been suffering from some technique problems that won't get solved with different set of boards.  Habits that you can get away with on the groomers (heel push, "slarved" turns) work when you're on top of the snow, but don't when you're in the snow.  Lots of us (myself included) have to "unlearn" some bad habits when first venturing into off-piste conditions.

 
Given your experience with softer snow (or lack of it), consider what OES has to say here. This isn't to say you're a poor skier. I have seen fairly skilled L2 instructors suddenly have difficulty when encountering random piles of crud with hard snow in between. Indeed, the ride on wide skis can get pretty bouncy in some kinds of skied-up crud, simply because they're trying to stay on top of an inconsistant surface instead of blasting through the mounds, and/or you're keeping them too flat or dropping your hips back because the conditions make you tentative, etc.

Whatever you're skiing on, it doesn't have to go over the piles. Sometimes, it's more fun to blow right through them. At first, you might just go straight through, just to play a little and because you're not accustomed to soft piles of snow. Soon, you'll discover that, if you have a good hard snow carve, you can roll your skis on edge and slice 'n' dice the soft piles even in the middle of a turn. And you can do it on a pair of what passes for pretty narrow skis, these days.

But the tails have to follow the tips in order for it to work. If you steer primarily by pivoting or by pushing the tails out, you'll have trouble, as OES implies. A big ski will certainly make it easier to pivot and smear (and those are sometimes very useful tools to have in the toolbox), so they may help you enjoy some more challenging snow conditions. But you'll have more fun yet, and more confidence, if you know how to drive even your smaller carvers through the crud. Then, when you lay your hands on a pair of big skis, you can really shine!
post #26 of 41
Thread Starter 
Thanks to all.  I think I have an ample list to start demoing -- now if only we had some snow here!  

SJ, you mentioned the Nordica HR Pro Burner.  How does that compare to the HR Jet Fuel Ca?

Has anyone skied either of the Stockli Stormriders (VXL or XXL) or the Salomon XW Fury?  Any of those worth adding to my demo list?

After poking around the web to check indicative prices, I can see why none of you mentioned any of the Kastles.  Heck, for about the price of any of the three Kastles on my List of 11 above, I could have a 2-ski quiver (e.g., start with that 2009 Head iM 78 that OES noted, then add a Western ski).

And, OES and jhcooley, I take your point that what I described on those slopes at The Canyons was probably as much my inexperience as the limitations of my skis.  The guy I was skiing with -- much more experienced than I, but also an east-coaster -- was on K2 Explorers and he wasn't doing that much better.  Jh, I'll try what you've suggested -- try to go through the snow piles rather than always over them, although I wonder if I'd need heftier skis than what I have now to do that effectively.

Thanks again to all.

    
post #27 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimski View Post



SJ, you mentioned the Nordica HR Pro Burner.  How does that compare to the HR Jet Fuel Ca?

 

Burner = Flat ski, lighter, more nimble.
HRJFCA = System ski, heavier, more damp, somewhat better grip.

SJ
post #28 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

 Having had my own share of conflicting advice from salesfolk, I think you should refine what you're looking for before heading off to the shop. I've certainly found that most of the sales guys are injecting their own biases into the equation.

I'll remain a 1-ski quiver guy. Also, although in my head I'm a 50/50 skier, in reality I'll likely be closer to a 70/30 skier for the next few years at least. And as long as I live in the East, the majority of my skiing will be in the East: this year I will have 4-8 days out of 20 out West. So, I want a ski that won't be sub-optimal on groomed slopes -- or at least won't detract from my fun -- but also won't be the limiting factor when I venture off the groomed slopes.


- yeah, stupid salesmen. You want a ski that will be good off piste out west and still fun on eastern groomers, you'll be skiing 70 percent of your time on piste but want a tree ski... why can't these moron shoprats give a simple answer?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimski View Post




LOL.  OK, so I'm a high-maintenance customer...
You should read this thread http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/85044/tips-from-the-bike-shop-the-best-from-craigslist#post_1147944
For your convenience, relevant content here 
Note: this is from the Humour Forum and posted here for a grin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

 Fixed for ski season...

Whoo-hoo, ski world, the snow is starting to fall! Let's discuss a few things before you fumble with swapping the unused bike rack for the unused ski rack on the Subaru. 

 

So yes, you've noticed the air is crisp, and hey!- maybe it would be cool to to make some turns. Let's keep in mind that it got cold for all 600,000 of us, so for the most part, you're not the only one who noticed. Please remember that when you walk into my shop on a bright, cold Saturday morning. It will save you from looking like a complete twat that huffs "Why are there so many people here?" 

 

Are we all on the same page now about it being cold outside? Have we all figured out that we're not the only clever people that feel sunny days are good for skiing? Great. I want to kiss all of you on your forehead for sharing this moment with me. Put your vitamin D starved fingers in mine, and we'll move on together to some pointers that will make life easier. 

 

SOME POINTERS FOR THE PHONE: 

 

- I don't know what size of boots you need. The only thing that I can tell over the phone is that you sound fat. I don't care what your shoe size is. I don't care how long your toes are. Don't complain to me that you don't want to come ALL THE WAY down to the ski shop to get fitted for boots. I have two hundred pair of boots in my inventory. I will find one that fits you. Whether you come from the north or the south, my shop is downhill. Pretend you're going to smell a fart, ball up, and roll your fat @ss down here. 

 

- Don't get high and call me. Write it down, call me later. When I have four phone lines ringing, and a herdlet of people waiting for help, I can't deal with you sitting there "uuuuhhh"-ing and "uuummm"-ing while your brain tries to put together some cheeto-xbox-fixie conundrum. We didn't get disconnected, I left you on hold to figure your sh!t out. 

 

-I really do need to see your boots to know what is wrong with them. You've already figured out that when you car makes a noise, the mechanic needs to see it. When your TV goes blank, a technician needs to see it. I can tell you, if there is one thing I've learned from you f-ing squirrels, it's that "shin bang" means your foot needs to be posted, or you might just need to stop backing into it with the Subaru. Bring it in, I'll let you know for sure. 

 

- No, I don't know how much a good boot costs. For some, spending $500 dollars is a kingly sum. For others, $500 won't buy you one good liner. You really need to have an idea of what you want, because every one of you raccoons "doesn't want to spend too much". 

 

FOR YOU INVENTIVE TYPES AND DO-IT-YOURSELFERS: 

 

- Just because you think is should exist, doesn't mean that it does. I know that to you, a soft boot that you can race in makes perfect sense, but what makes more sense is buying a boot that fits you, not trying to make your rear entry boots that were too big for you to begin with into a race boot. 

 

- If some twat on some message board somewhere says that you can use the footbeds from your sneakers for support doesn't mean that A: you can, or B: you should. Please listen to me on this stuff, I really do have your best interests at heart. 

 

- I love that you have the enthusiasm to mounted your own skis in the off season. That does not mean however, that I share your enthusiasm; ergo I won't do the "final tweaks" for you. You figure out why that Look toe and that Salomon heel don't work together. While we're at it, you people scare me a little. Don't bring that lumbering f-ing thing anywhere near me. 

 

A DEDICATION TO ALL THE HIPSTER DUCHEBAGS: 

 

-If you sh!theads had any money, you wouldn't NEED 140cm wide rockers to get laid. Go have a dredlock growing contest in front of American Apparel, so that I can continue selling $300 package skis to fatties, which is what keeps the lights on. 

 

- Being made in the 80's may make something cool, but that doesn't automatically make something good. The reason that no one has skied that "vintage" Nordica 955’s is because they’re shit. They was shit in the 80's, a trend it carried proudly through the 90's, and rallied with into the '00's. What I mean to say is, no, I can't make it work better. It's still sh!t, even with a footbed. 

 

SO YOU'RE GONNA BUY SKIS: 

 

Good for you! Skiing is awesome. It's easy, it's fun, it's good for you. I want you to ski, I really do. To that end, I am here to help you. 

 

-Your co-worker that's "really into skiing" knows f*** all. Stop asking for his advice. He could care less about you having the right boot. He wants to validate his boot purchase(s) through you. He also wants to sleep with you, and wear a matching ski suit with you. 

 

- You're not an Extreme Skier. You're not. If you were, you wouldn't be here, and we both know it. 

 

- You're not a racer. If you were, I'd know you already, and you wouldn't be here, and we both know it. 

 

- So you want skis that you can ski powder, you can race, is good for the bumps on Outer Limits (snicker), is good for carving, and costs less than $300. Yeah. Listen, I want a car that can go 200 miles an hour, tow a boat, has room for five adults, is easy to parallel park but can carry plywood, gets 60mpg, and only costs $3,000. I also want a unicorn to blow me. What are we even talking about here? Oh yeah. Listen, skis can be fast, light, cheap and comfortable. Pick two, and we're all good. 

 

ABOUT YOUR KIDS: 

 

Your kids are amazing. Sure are. No one else has kids as smart, able, funny or as good looking as you. Nope. Never see THAT around here. 

 

- I have no idea how long you kid will be able to use these skis. As it seems to me, your precious is a little retarded, and can't even use the damn things now. More likely, your budding genius is going to leave the skis in the rack on the mountain LONG before the nose picker outgrows the skis. 

 

- Stop being so jumpy. I am not a molester. You people REALLY watch too much TV. When I measure your kids feet and help them put the boots one, it's not because I get a thrill from *almost* having my hand on kid feet, it's because kids are unpredictable, and generally take off whenever possible, usually not in the direction you think they might go. Listen, if I were going to do anything bad to your kids, I'd feed them to sharks, because sharks are F-ING AWESOME. 

 

 

I hope this helps, and have fun this winter riding your kick-ass skis! 




 

Edited by Trekchick - 12/4/09 at 4:09am
post #29 of 41
Yeah!!!!!.................what he said...................wellllll.................mostly sorta...............

SJ
post #30 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimski View Post

... so I'll remain a 1-ski quiver guy.

Your dilemma can be condensed to this statement.  You're looking for a Ferrari with a high ground clearance and a large cargo capacity.

Get yourself a pair of good of skis for the hard pack, for example the Fisher WC RC recommended by Ghost, and don't worry about anything else.  You'll have the best choice most of the time.

If you really end up needing something else for 2-3 days a year, rent a demo, or buy from ebay.  You'll have a lot better skiing experience for a lot less money.

You're not married to your skis - it's OK to cheat once in a while.
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