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Salomon Shogun

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Has anyone here (that doesn't represent the brand) demo'd or bought and skied this ski yet?  It seems like it may be a good alternative to the Volkl Bridge which I was strongly considering but feel inbetween sizes in.  How does this ski compare to the Mantra and Bridge for all mountain duties (though not heavy on either in park or bump time)?

SJ, it sounds like you've skied both of these and have had strong recommendations for the Bridge in the past.  Care to compare the two ski's capabilities and characteristics? 

I'm interested in this ski as a potential high mileage daily driver for Vail area resort skiing.
Edited by Canyonlands - 11/30/09 at 8:11am
post #2 of 21
Thread Starter 
I'll be doing a direct comparison of the Salomon Shogun, Volkl Mantra and Nordica Enforcer within a week.  I'll work the Volkl Bridge in where I can as well, if I can find it in someone's fleet.
post #3 of 21
The Shogun or Mantra would probably be your two best options out there as the Bridge is more for those who want to ski groomers with the versatility to occasionally shred some powder.  Out where you are, I'd imagine that you mostly ski powder, right?  If so, go with the Shogun or Mantra (I'd take the Mantra, personally).

Demoing them all certainly can only bring good things, though!

Edit: I would also check out Line Prophet 100.
post #4 of 21
Thread Starter 
Thanks SITE.  I'll watch for a LP 100 that I can add to the mix but I'm thinking that I can find something that I'll be stoked about between the Bridge, Mantra, Enforcer and Shogun.


My skiing profile goes like so:

Steep:  Wide or narrow, I love it all and enjoy dropping in on near vert chutes etc.  I might need something a little more lively than the big race ski feel of the Mantra.  ?
Deep:  You bet but I'm out on the hill 5-6 days a week and will take what I can get.
Groomers:  Sure, as long as I can let it rip. I find myself here often since my wife loves cruising but she's only with me on weekend ski days.
Tracked and crud:  Love it as long as the ski can hold a line.
Trees:  Not really into this but I'm up for easier blasts through the forest.
Park:  Never unless I'm just passing through and I'll try some air.
Bumps:  Not my idea of a good time but I happen into a moguled run from time to time.
post #5 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canyonlands View Post

Thanks SITE.  I'll watch for a LP 100 that I can add to the mix but I'm thinking that I can find something that I'll be stoked about between the Bridge, Mantra, Enforcer and Shogun.


My skiing profile goes like so:

Steep:  Wide or narrow, I love it all and enjoy dropping in on near vert chutes etc.  I might need something a little more lively than the big race ski feel of the Mantra.  ?
Deep:  You bet but I'm out on the hill 5-6 days a week and will take what I can get.
Groomers:  Sure, as long as I can let it rip. I find myself here often since my wife loves cruising but she's only with me on weekend ski days.
Tracked and crud:  Love it as long as the ski can hold a line.
Trees:  Not really into this but I'm up for easier blasts through the forest.
Park:  Never unless I'm just passing through and I'll try some air.
Bumps:  Not my idea of a good time but I happen into a moguled run from time to time.
I ski the mantra as my everyday ski in maine . This is what I have noticed.

Steep- Seems to do ok
Groomers-- Can rock it like the skinnys
Tracked and Crud-- The mantra is rather talented in this section. Feels like pow.
Trees--- Here is the downside for me. I love the trees and with the mantra as my normal ski, I have it in there often. Yes you can ski it in the woods, but its just not a jumpy as some may like to get around tight trees.
Park-- Not a full twin tip. Okay for the occassinal 180 or 540
Bumps--- Like the trees. Manageable but not prefered.

Oh and Deep-- -Hellz ya.
post #6 of 21
You're right- of the Bridge, Mantra, Enforcer and Shogun, you will certainly find a ski you like--if you get the chance, though, at least demo the 100 Prophet.

The Shogun is the only Salomon ski I've ever liked- (never used the Salomon Rocker, though)- it can definitely fit your profile.  It seems like you need a ski with more rocker than the Bridge, assuming that your groomed runs tend to be easier than your powder treks.  I know very little about the Enforcer, so I can't comment, but have you looked at the Volkl Katana?  I understand that its not the best on groomers, but with 5-6 days out in the pow, this ski would definitely be a fit.


The verdict:

You can't go wrong with the Shogun, Mantra, or Katana (at least judging by your profile)

Good luck!
post #7 of 21
Thread Starter 
The Mantra has been the ski I've been thinking about for over a year.  I'm certainly going to give it a go in the demo.  I just hear that it's a bit stiff in the tail and that the Shogun is not.  We'll see.

Let me add something about the way I approach groomers.  As long as the path is clear, I'm going as fast as I can with a few turns thrown in for style points.  It seems that I can always catch any of my pals in our races to the mid-mountain lodge, and I only tip the scales at 165.  Anyway, I need a ski that's going to rail on the groomers.  I know that the Mantra is there.  I'm wondering how the others stack up in this regard. 

The Katana is something I've looked at but it seems like more ski that my lightweight 5' 10" frame needs.  If the shop has it and I have the time I'll take it out as well, just out of curiosity.
post #8 of 21
The Bridge is better in powder than the Mantra.........by quite a lot. The Shogun is better than either.

SJ
post #9 of 21
2nd the Prophet 100. Heard it's really good on groomers and pretty quick.

I love the Bridge for skiing trees, don't do many groomers so cant comment on that.

If its between the Shogun and the Mantra, go with the Mantra if you like goomers more, go with the Shogun if you like off trail better. If you can't decide go with the Shogun becaues they look better (just kidding but I like the graphics on the Shogun a lot better!)
post #10 of 21
Thread Starter 
I can't seem to knock that Bridge out of my line-up.  I look forward to testing this ski that so few Volkl dealers seem to carry.  All the comments and reviews I've read have me really curious about its character.  I heard the top sheet doesn't hold up well but if that's the worse to be said about it...

SJ, if my friends that own a couple of shops in the area can't get the ski I decide on, I'll look into ordering it from your shop.  Seems like you list everything, and then some.

Any thoughts on what size I should most likely be on for these?  Near 175 or near 185?  Or is that too tough to call.  I'm 70.5" tall and 165 pounds and my skiing profile is a few posts up where the bolded text is.
post #11 of 21
I carry the Bridge b/c I feel that it is Volkl's best all mountain ski. As such, I feel that it is a better choice than the Mantra for most skiers most of the time. I test about everything and have owned two Mantras so I'm familiar as can be with that ski. My own personal take is that versatility is best defined as a ski that does everything at least reasonably well without being really bad at anything. That is an apt description of the Bridge.

I am 200# and generally prefer skis on the longer side. My Mantras were both 184 and my Gotamas were 183. This year's quiver will include a Prophet 100 in 186 and a Blizzi Atlas in 180.  If I were to buy a Bridge this year, it would be a 185. Given your weight, etc. I'd suggest the Bridge in 177 mounted at the rear line.

SJ
post #12 of 21
Thread Starter 
I took the Shogun out for a long run at Vail today and am sad to say I was looking forward to moving onto demoing something else pretty quick.  As noted, an all-mountain daily driver is the target of my search.  I'm pretty sure that I'd read some marketing biz that it could handle its own on the groomers but the Legend Pro Riders I tried earlier were markedly better in this area so I didn't need to prolong riding this one.  If I had more time I would have put it through paces for the sake of a review but I had more than half-a-dozen skis to take out.  Sadly, the Bridges I had lined up for me went out on rent by mistake missed being able check it out.
post #13 of 21
Fordangsure, the Shogun is not as good as the LP on groomers.  When you even think about considering a ski such as the Shogun for everyday use, you just have to accept the compromises that rockered designs entail. Even skis with tip rocker only such as the Shogun will suffer in comparison to a conventional ski on groomers. You should sorta expect that as a given going in.

OTH, the Shogun and other similar skis will offer a certain kind of performance in truly deep snow that conventional skis of similar width cannot match.

If you really prioritize groomer skiing but want a wide ski to do it on, then rockers are probably not for you.


SJ
post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 
I saw in one mention of the ski's groomer performance that the rocker didn't have a negative effect in this regard and I've read that the rocker was "marketing rocker", which I believe were your words.  I certainly saw in the product description that it was billed in such a way that it had potential in my intended usage profile, which is well described as groomer performance that I could live with for an hour, if for instance hanging with groomer prone pals for part of the day.  I did indeed have a suspicion that it might not live up to such a reality but taking it out was the best way to find out.  Right?


Edited by Canyonlands - 12/5/09 at 8:24pm
post #15 of 21
I think that you may have discovered the fallacy in Einstein's theory of the free lunch..............

SJ
post #16 of 21
Thread Starter 
There was a lot of good free stuff today but lunch wasn't one of them.    

See the "Dynastar Pro Rider or..." post as the resulting thoughts and questions of the day.
post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canyonlands View Post



See the "Dynastar Pro Rider or..." post as the resulting thoughts and questions of the day.

BTDT..............

SJ
post #18 of 21

I was in Steamboat Springs in early January, just as a foot of fresh powder hit. Rather than dealing with an antique pair of 198cm Atomic BetaRides, I demo'd the Volkl Mantra (about a 178). It struck me as an easy, forgiving ski, but one that I would call boring. After about 90 minutes, I took it back to the shop and the salesman put me on a pair of 189cm Shoguns. I loved them. I felt like they wanted to turn, rather than waiting to be asked. I bought a pair that night. You'll have to be pretty old for this to make sense, but they remind me of the Dynamic VR17 from around 1970. They have a stiff tail and with the rocker shovel, that is relatively soft.

 

I skied them today at Eldora on very different conditions. It was wind-blown hardpack that bordered on ice. The BetaRides were built to carve on that and I started the day on them. I switched to the Shoguns after a couple of hours, and they did almost as well. It took a bit more work. You have to make a much more definite forward and downhill weight transfer, and roll your edges more (longer sidecut), but they really will carve and cruise on icy hardpack. They are not just a powder ski. You won't be embarrassed on cruisers.

 

Some background: I'm 6'3, weigh 230 and am 55 years old. I lift weights and have very strong legs, calves and lower back. I learned to ski at Taos in the 1960s, so these skis fit that French down-unweighting style. I love steep, and these come around very quickly if you stay on them. With the stiff tail, you can ski the bumps in the back seat, as well. They love for you to face down the fall line.

 

I've seen a comparison that preferred the Volkl Katana, and I never skied those. They may be better, but these were a great fit for me and my style, and the price was reasonable.

post #19 of 21

Love the Salomon Shoguns.  I am 6'2", 185lbs and have been skiing the 183cm Shoguns for 2 years.  I ski out east mainly and they are great in the trees/bumps, also found them to be very versatile on the groomers.  They are OK in deep powder on the occasion I get out west, but this year I went with a K2 Side Stash to get a bit more underfoot for powder days.

post #20 of 21
I love the way my Shoguns ski in ALL conditions. That being said, I hate the way they are built. The cap construction definitely has some issues. I know that the 11/12 model was riddled with manufacturer defects. I personally would not recommend this ski purely for this reason.
post #21 of 21

Everybody has their own way of evaluating skis. I bought a pair of Shoguns two years ago (Jan 2011). I'm 6'3" and 230 lbs, and the 183 is probably a size too small for me, but I have to say I love these skis. They are my "one-ski-quiver". They are not the ultimate carver, nor the ultimate powder ski, but they carve pretty well and are great in powder. I was demoing skis on a powder day in Steamboat (a foot of fresh), and they first put me on Volkl Mantras. They were great, forgiving skis, but I was quickly bored on them. I went back to the rental yurt and they put me on a pair of Shoguns. The skis quite simply begged me to turn. I loved them so much that I bought them that night, and have never regretted it.

 

I also have a pair of Salomon El Dictators (no longer made). These are like Shoguns on steroids, longer, wider and stiffer (the only size they made was 194cm). Both skis have a small front rocker and no tail rocker. These are speed merchants, and will fly in any conditions.

 

I also have a pair of Atomic DS GS race skis. These are quite simply the best carving ski that I have ever owned. When the conditions are hardpack, this is what I reach for first.

I have demo'd the Volkl Katana, and I really liked it. Think of it as halfway between the Shogun and the El Dictator. It is a bit more of a long-turn powder ski than the Shogun, that actually carves a bit better, but is still playful and great in powder. It's definitely more of a high-speed ski than the Shogun.

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