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Skiing and Mountain Biking: Same Skills: Different Application

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
this guy said that once talking about keep the eyes moving; or as I understood it: glance down look forward . critical in Mtn Biking and skiing.

quite a few things translate.
Edited by davluri - 11/23/09 at 11:35pm
post #2 of 13
Glance down and look forward is the last thing you want to do.


You want to always look forward. When you look forward, look ahead find something to focus on and focus. Do not just scan ahead. When you focus, your peripheral vision comes into focus Things seen in your peripheral vision your mind just reacts to. If you glance down and see something(in your peripheral when looking ahead) your brain has to process what it sees and then decided what to do. It is a very slight difference but at speed this makes a huge difference. You keep your eyes moving by constantly moving your eyes forward to the next focal point. When you do drills working on this it is amazing how suddenly riding/skiing at speed slows down and does not seem as fast anymore. You also see much more detail in the terrain you are on.
post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
that's a more clear way to say it. Big disaster if your eyes get stuck looking down at rocks and stuff(=skiing looking near your tips)

simply said: both sports are a lot about how you are seeing..

thanks for the riding tip.
I knew there were Mtn Bikers at Epic! 
Edited by davluri - 11/23/09 at 8:13pm
post #4 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

that's are more clear way to say it. Big disaster if your eyes get stuck looking down at rocks and stuff(=skiing looking near your tips)

simply said: both sports are a lot about how you are seeing..

thanks for the riding tip.
I knew there were Mtn Bikers at Epic! 

you do realize there is entire forum on there for MTBing ;)

being able to exaggerate flexion / extentions movements is something that seperates good skiers from great skiers and good MTBer from Great MTBing.



even in turns cross under is apparent, as well as early COM movement into the new turn



one way skiing and MTB are different though is MTBing is mostly inclination where as skiing is mostly angulation. MTBs generally lean their entire body over where as skier generally keep their shoulders parrellel with with the slope. Its the same reason why water skiers use inclination when on one edge(or 2 wheel inline vehicles).

MTBing is the whole body


skiing is most of the time just the lower



waterskiing is more like MTBing due to there only being one edge.

post #5 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post





one way skiing and MTB are different though is MTBing is mostly inclination where as skiing is mostly angulation. MTBs generally lean their entire body over where as skier generally keep their shoulders parrellel with with the slope. Its the same reason why water skiers use inclination when on one edge(or 2 wheel inline vehicles).

MTBing is the whole body


 

Actually on the bike leaning your whole body only works in corners with berms. You do want to keep your shoulders/hips close to parallel with the ground. The picture above shows poor cornering form. The rider above if they were to go any faster would wash out the front wheel and fall over towards the inside of the turn roughly in the place the are currently looking at. The front tire is already losing traction due to complete lack of weight on it.

I am trying to find a good picture to show this.



I wish the last picture was farther away so you could really see the body position. You can see in the second picture where I am getting ready to corner hard upon landing, the shoulders/hips are leaned to match the bank of the corner. The bike will be angled over even farther to get it to dig in.  The hips are starting to rotate to face the end of the corner. You will straighten your inside arm pushing down on the handlebar to lean the bike over and your outside arm will be bent close to 90 degrees. You can also see in the last picture how the hips are rotated to face the trail after the corner. The hips are also shifted to the outside and closer to level to keep the center of gravity over the contact patch of the tires. The outside knee is also pressed against the bike to help lean the bike over farther. You will also notice the difference in head position in the guy in the blue jersey and the second picture in the sequence. One is looking far ahead and the other is looking at their front wheel.

Cornering hard on a bike can feel very similar to carving on skis. With the angles you get in the legs and arms lean the bike over while the upper body remains fairly level. Your hips do very similar things cornering on a bike and carving on skis. Your shoulder are not quite the same since they are influenced by the position of you hands and what the handlebar is doing. Then when you through in the weight shift and really pressing hard on the outside foot on the pedal it can almost feel like carving on skis except it is a bike under you on dirt.
post #6 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post




you do realize there is entire forum on there for MTBing ;)

 

well, yes.

.... what that guy said about the same skills. he expected a skier to learn mountain biking well because a skier would have all the basic skills: vision, balance, timing and reaction going in,  and learn how to apply those skills to a new sport with similar dynamics. .

At the mountain sometimes the Airforce jets buzz us. I think those pilots definitely.....

 
post #7 of 13
Yup, lot of similarities between skiing / MTB for sure. Where your eyes go, your ski / front wheels go (kind of).

Cross - you mentioned focus drills - sounds interesting! Do you have any specific drills you can detail / recommend ?
post #8 of 13
Thread Starter 
you'd have to fee that the bike would handle the terrain obstacles. around here we are always riding rocky trails, often boulders of every size from potatoes to basket balls. sometimes you have to pick your way a little, keeping your eyes moving.

Same skiing. will the skis power through all the snow features while you are looking out ahead

you don't want to look at the front wheel / ski tips, but sometimes you do. It never turns out well.




Quote:
Originally Posted by CR0SS View Post

Glance down and look forward is the last thing you want to do.


 
post #9 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILOJ View Post

Cross - you mentioned focus drills - sounds interesting! Do you have any specific drills you can detail / recommend ?

 

All the drills I have are for the bike. You take five orange cones and set them up in a flat paved area. You make a rectangle that is roughly 20'x40' with a cone at each corner and one in the center of the rectangle. Then you ride around the outside of the narrow side of the rectangle then cross the center next to the center cone then back to the outside essentially doing figure 8's.



Now to practice looking ahead and focusing you look ahead two cones. So if you are at a cone A about to cross through the center of the rectangle you would be looking at the far corner cone C. Keep looking at that cone C until you get to the cone B. Once you get to the cone B you look/focus at the cone D. You keep this going as you continue to do figure 8s around the cones. It is cool how as you are doing this things work great as long as you keep looking ahead. Almost every time you briefly glance down to see if you will miss a cone you end up hitting the cone. You also only continue to do laps as longs as you can do it perfectly, 6 laps is usually enough before taking a break. You do not want to practice bad habits. You also incorporate this drill into other cornering drills with the cones.

To really get this stuff down I suggest taking one of Gene Hamiltons riding camps. www.betterride.net This is one of the things he focuses on and it makes a world of difference,

post #10 of 13
Thread Starter 
you could do that skiing in the trees, looking a tree or two ahead
post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by CR0SS View Post


Actually on the bike leaning your whole body only works in corners with berms. You do want to keep your shoulders/hips close to parallel with the ground.

This video illustrates what you are talking about. The Clay Porter film Hypnosis really shows it well.
post #12 of 13
I'll definitely give the "look 2 cones / trees ahead" drill a try  next time I'm skiing and mtb'ing - Thanks for the tip.
post #13 of 13
Thread Starter 
hairpins on a bike, slow technical ones or fast sweeping are hyper action for your eyes, trying to keep ahead.

skiiing your vision is more open, easier to keep it forward, condition dependent I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILOJ View Post

I'll definitely give the "look 2 cones / trees ahead" drill a try  next time I'm skiing and mtb'ing - Thanks for the tip.
 
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