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Is Dad an Idiot?

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

Dad here... My son (10) is a level 3-4 skier, but will be skiing a lot more with me this year -- free-skiing and NASTAR-style racing (UNM Corporate Cup).  He has had no gear of his own... Until Dad started hitting eBay...


I won a pair of new Lange Team 70 WC boots for him at a ridiculously (obscenely? jaw-droppingly?) low price.  Yes, these boots are intended for someone with a higher skill set.  But, they are pretty much the only boots I've come across that are both junior and his size (10). Question 1: Will a performance boot such as this be detrimental to him?

Being that this is a 'junior' boot, I expect that the toe and heel lugs are incompatible w/ adult bindings.  Searching here has resulted in a mixed bag of conflicting advice.  Question 2a: Will these boots work with adult bindings? Question 2b: Is there a list of adult bindings that will work with junior boots?  Question 2c:  Is there a means for determining whether a binding is a 'junior'-compatible binding? (I've found that bindings w/ 'Team' in the name, or Salomon's "C###" are an indicator.  What of Marker or Tyrolia?)

If the Langes are too much boot, what would be suggested for a growing kid of 5'2", 100lbs?

TIA,

  - Eric

post #2 of 17
 If the boot fits, wear it. Now to be totally honest, I find it very hard to believe that size 10 is the right size for him.
post #3 of 17
Above 23 or so mondo, even "junior" boots meet adult DIN requirements.  A size 10 boot is around a 27.5 or 28 mondo.

If you want to play it safe, go for the Tyrolia AC70 (or other Tyrolia __70), which have an adjustable Adult/Child height.  (Hence the name.)

It seems likely, however, that these are too big for him.  He's obviously a big kid, especially for his age, and feet often reach full size before body.  But don't make the mistake of buying the boots too big.  You won't be doing him any service.

Measure his foot in centimeters.  Compare that to the mondo size on the boot.  Report back.
post #4 of 17
I think the only time you should buy equipment on ebay or any other online site is when YOU KNOW 100% WHAT YOU NEED, AND WHAT YOU ARE BUYING. 

If you have any questions about the stuff you have just bought, you shouldn't have bought it.
post #5 of 17
A Level 3/4 100lb 10yo should go with something softer. Even though "race" boots can be used for all conditions, 70 flex in a Lange WC 70 will definitely be too much for him (but not too overly).

In comparison, a strong 12/13yo expert racer who weighs 110lbs would probably find these boots suitable. For a learning non-racer, the boots should be much softer.

As for the size, take a tape measure, draw an outline of a foot (the larger one if they are different). Measure the length in cm from tip to tip and that would be precisely his mondo size. I would not be surprised if these boots are up to 2 to 3 sizes too big.

An oversized boot that is overstiff can be disastrous to his learning and progress.
post #6 of 17
I'm having a little trouble with the question, particularly the "size 10" part. Do you mean men's 10, or youth 10?

American men's 10 (which would be mondo 28) is bigger than a lot of adult's feet, including mine. I find it difficult to believe a 10-year-old boy could have feet anywhere close to that size. Plus, it seems highly unlikely that Lange makes junior boots that run that big.

On the other hand, youth 10 (mondo 17) sounds too small.

Of course, I suppose you might mean UK men's 10, which would be US men's 11. Probably not.

I don't know if the boot lugs meet adult or junior DIN standards. I was under the impression that all junior boots have junior DIN lugs, but that might not be true. I can say with certainty that at least some larger junior boots follow junior DIN, as my daughter has mondo 24.0 Atomic boots which quite definitely are junior DIN.

As for the model, I'll disagree with some others and say it may well be okay. So far as I understand the Lange flex index (my daughter had Lange boots at one point), 70 doesn't seem out of line for a kid that size.
post #7 of 17
Lange Team 70 (and Team 80 for that matter) start out at US womens size 3/3.5 (euro 34/34.5, mondo 22-ish). They are all adult DIN from the smallest sizes.

For the record, most "jr" bindings are also adult DIN norm above the 4-DIN models. Tyrolia SL70/75 is adult DIN although the AC model is adjustable to junior norm with a slider under the toe. SL40 is jr. norm. Dynastar/Look Nova 7 Team is adult norm, unless you get hold of the junior AFD and heel adapters. Team 4 is jr. norm. Ditto Marker 7-DIN bindings - adapters are available.

Take the flex numbers with a pinch of salt - I've seen Lange Comp 60s described as low as 20-flex and as high as 50, but never 60. Likewise the Team 70s are almost certainly softer than an adult 70-flex. Can he flex the boots? Easily in a warm indoor environment? If yes then chances are he'll be good to go in the outdoors.
post #8 of 17
My son is 10 also and his street shoe size is 9.5 and he is 102lbs, so the OP is not crazy. I just went through this with my son. First problem is that only a few junior boots go that large and then you can run into toe box issues, as we did.

Next when you step up to adult boots the flex becomes too much based upon the weight. Add another 20 lbs to the kid and its not a problem.

Forgetting about bindings for a minute, which I think should not be a problem. My sons adult boots (Nordica) work with his junior (Marker) bindings.I think that the sizing of the boots could be an issue, assuming that he can flex them. Dad did you size the foot before you bought? Has he put the boots on yet? He could be swimming in these boots.
post #9 of 17
You're neither crazy nor an idiot. We went through the same stage when my son was 11 (three years ago). Same size foot, 100 lb. (Not sure why people always second guess parents who should know what size their kid's feet are ...)

We found a junior Nordica boot in a 50 flex, size 28. I think they were probably more like a 27, in reality, because now he's in a 27.5 men's boot, and the junior boots were definitely too small last season. But we bought it online, because as you know, finding something like that isn't very easy, period, much less finding it in person. I think those particular boots had been discontinued when we bought them; they were half off, I remember. Someone on this site actually pointed them out for me, and they weren't on Nordica's site. We shell fit him, and luckily they were a good fit and lasted 2 seasons (his foot has only grown one size since then).

Anyway, if the Langes end up being too big, there is always next year. If they fit but are too stiff, a bootfitter can soften them, no?

We bought junior bindings, but they were race bindings with a higher DIN, so they fit the boots.

It's an awkward stage for fitting boots, to be sure. At least it doesn't last very long, which I guess is why boot companies don't bother focusing on it. But if I were in charge, I would make "tweener boy" boots ... low skinny cuffs, soft flex, rad colors, in sizes 27 and 28. I'm not in charge, though. :-)
post #10 of 17
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the replies (even those that are YELLING).  I must admit that my judgement has been clouded by lifelong dreams of skiing with my kids, surprisingly fast foot growth demonstrated in two of my kids (both have outgrown new shoes purchased for them in August), and the thrill of the kill in landing a screaming ebay deal (brand new Lange WC Team 70 boots for $10 in a street shoe indicated size).

I did measure his foot last night: just over 26 cm.  (You may now pat yourselves on the back)  BTW, he is expected to grow to 6'6" when it's all said and done -- and his feet are heading that way first.

As to the bindings question, this had nothing to do with an "oh, crap! What did I just buy?!"  It was that the boots are 'junior' boots, and my recent understanding had been that this meant that they required junior bindings.  I was finding next to no information on previous years' junior bindings, and needed to know what binding models to watch for (I *am* buying used, after all).  Finding out that the soles are DIN (no, the boots have not arrived yet) opens up the world to us for used skis.

Why not rent?  With an expected 8 days (or more) on snow, at $20/day for rentals, I make out better by purchasing.  Plus at the end of it all, I can resell.

When did this sport get so expensive?  It cost something like $8/day in '75...  :)
Edited by Crash-Enburn - 11/24/09 at 9:22am
post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash-Enburn View Post
 BTW, he is expected to grow to 6'6" when it's all said and done -- and his feet are heading that way first.
 
My son has a buddy with size 17 feet (they are high school freshmen), predicted to be 6'11". At least you aren't there (yet). He's a hockey player, too. Skates must be a bear to find.
post #12 of 17
No matter if the flex number means anything, Lange jr race boots are still more stiff than the equivalent countparts in other brands. (my 13yo has worn nothing but Lange "race" boots for at least 5-6 years). For comparison, I constantly have my kids try flexing the different brands before and during each season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

(Not sure why people always second guess parents who should know what size their kid's feet are ...)

 
Answer is easy... because almost everyone is off (not only parents). Some people just don't know or don't know much about boot sizing relative to street shoes, and the rest simply exagerate.

I fit boots at our busy swap each year. Nearly all shoppers over two weekends with the exception of maybe one would come up with the wrong size. That is why I always shell size right off the bat (amongst the many tricks that I learn from real boot fitters).

Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

Anyway, if the Langes end up being too big, there is always next year. If they fit but are too stiff, a bootfitter can soften them, no?
 
In general, yes. But, from what I've seen with my kids' boots, the race/team/WC series isn't the easier to soften. I tried taking it to a very reputable boot fitter at Stowe/Smuggs a few years back. He took a look at the boots and decided that they were too stiff for the little body and moreover they weren't worth the money to work on. Why would you spend half or more of what you put into a pair of jr boots for work done? Not to mention the impact on resell.

Edited by chanwmr - 11/24/09 at 10:21am
post #13 of 17
Quote:
But if I were in charge, I would make "tweener boy" boots ... low skinny cuffs, soft flex, rad colors, in sizes 27 and 28. I'm not in charge, though. :-)
 
There is such a market. It's called womens' boots (at least a part of it).
post #14 of 17
Look at the bottom of ski boot, see if there was a mark of  A, C there. A for adults, C for child.
Find a good bootfitter. Shell fit 2 finger fit, flex should be, flex knees, little effert, and have movement of upper cuff. It is by kid, I'v seen 10 yr old flex 70 boots. The new Lange are not as stiff as the older ones, with the same flex #.
post #15 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chanwmr View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

It's an awkward stage for fitting boots, to be sure. At least it doesn't last very long, which I guess is why boot companies don't bother focusing on it. But if I were in charge, I would make "tweener boy" boots ... low skinny cuffs, soft flex, rad colors, in sizes 27 and 28. I'm not in charge, though. :-)


There is such a market. It's called womens' boots (at least a part of it).

Yup.  Nothing can make an awkward, gangly boy feel more at ease than, "Here you go, son!  Women's boots!"  :D
post #16 of 17
They are not too stiff.

26 cm is a size 26 foot or size 8 shell is it not? Size 10 is almost certainly too big *this year* but probably fine next year.  But by then, they could be too soft.  How many days/yr skiing?
post #17 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by chanwmr View Post



There is such a market. It's called womens' boots (at least a part of it).

Women's boots don't go in sizes that high, and they have wide cuffs.
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