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Fat skis or poor technique? - Page 2

post #31 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrophobia View Post




So why fight the ski design?  Fat skis don't want to get up on edge on hardpack.  Yes, you can carve them if you're going fast enough and you exaggerate your movements enough, and yes it's fun. 

But big stiff fat skis want to stay on their bases, so why not just pivot and drift to get back to the lift?  It's a much more relaxed way to get down.

umm because I would rather look like I know what i am doing than totally gaping pivoting back to the lift. ;) pivoting is also rather slow and can be sketch as you cna catch edges

I ski REALLY fast nearly all my free time, and generally avoid hardpack if I am on bigger ski but when i hit hardpackish groomers 40mph SG turns are fun.

besides the point banking is bad 99 percent of the time. Most people who detest fat skis cant actually ski well...





even with pivoting you still need to be balanced on the outside ski though
post #32 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post




umm because I would rather look like I know what i am doing than totally gaping pivoting back to the lift. ;) pivoting is also rather slow and can be sketch as you cna catch edges

I ski REALLY fast nearly all my free time, and generally avoid hardpack if I am on bigger ski but when i hit hardpackish groomers 40mph SG turns are fun.

besides the point banking is bad 99 percent of the time. Most people who detest fat skis cant actually ski well...





even with pivoting you still need to be balanced on the outside ski though
 
Nice shot Josh!  It's hard to be definitive with only one frame, but it looks to me as though you have a fair amount of pressure (appropriate use of...) on that inside ski even though, as you say, you are balanced on the outside ski.  I think that is good skiing.  I'm looking at how your edge angles match on both skis and how the inside ski is biting into the snow.  I'm not trying to start an argument...  Just pointing out that you may be a more two footed skier than you let on.
post #33 of 38
ok, some general comments about fat skis that might help the OP.
  1. On hardpack, because of the wider waist, you need to angulate more than usual in order to direct pressure to the edge instead of creating a levering effect.  This is why racers use the skinniest ski possible by the way.
  2. It may feel like it takes more input then usual to move from one set of edges to the other.  If you have a feel for skinnier skis and providing just the right input to cross over, it may feel with the fatties like you just have to learn how to give a bit more.
  3. Imagine you have a 2x2 and a 4x4.  Roll them both across the driveway and you will notice that the 2x2 rolls a lot easier and more smoothly than the 4x4. The same is true for a fatter ski.  Its going to feel more like you flop the ski down to a flat float and then heft them up onto the other edges....less like smooth rolling from edge to edge.  Adapt!
post #34 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post




umm because I would rather look like I know what i am doing than totally gaping pivoting back to the lift. ;) pivoting is also rather slow and can be sketch as you cna catch edges

I ski REALLY fast nearly all my free time, and generally avoid hardpack if I am on bigger ski but when i hit hardpackish groomers 40mph SG turns are fun.

....
 

Well, yes, exactly my point.  You're young, athletic, a PSIA full cert, ski fast, and don't have any trouble getting your skis to do what you want them to do. 

But the OP is inexperienced and is having trouble controlling his big, stiff, skis.  We're fairly certain he is having difficulty carving his mid-fats; so why encourage him to try on his big boards?   Learning to pivot on them is very easy, relatively speaking, because it doesn't fight the ski design.
post #35 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrophobia View Post




Well, yes, exactly my point.  You're young, athletic, a PSIA full cert, ski fast, and don't have any trouble getting your skis to do what you want them to do. 

But the OP is inexperienced and is having trouble controlling his big, stiff, skis.  We're fairly certain he is having difficulty carving his mid-fats; so why encourage him to try on his big boards?   Learning to pivot on them is very easy, relatively speaking, because it doesn't fight the ski design.

I am not encouraging him on his big boards. I want him to go out on his skinny skis and learn how to be on his outside ski. I would not recommend he do the drill I suggested on his BDs thats for sure....

even in pivots or shorter  turns you still are balance on your outside ski..... 

I am just saying if your balancing where you should be, it will lead to the ability to pivot or carve or anything in between where ever you want on whatever skis you want. The OP has the same issues on his skinny skis I am sure of it, its just they dont bite him as much as when he gets on his Verdicts. To discourage learning to balance on his outside ski would be detrimental to his skiing.

edit - ski instruction is so much easier in person! honestly given a day or 2 I could pretty much promise that he wouldnt be scared of these skis anymore. 
post #36 of 38
Okay, so we're talking at cross purposes, BWPA.  Yes, I agree that learning to balance properly on one's skis is necessary, no matter what the edging skill.  I was simply suggesting pivoting on the bases as a survival skill, a way for the OP to still be able to use the skis in soft snow, but be able to make it down the groomers in a controlled fashion, without hitting anybody (namely, me!).
post #37 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post


edit - ski instruction is so much easier in person! honestly given a day or 2 I could pretty much promise that he wouldnt be scared of these skis anymore. 
If you are ever in Washington... haha

Anyway, last year I got to a point on my midfats where I could carve pretty well even for the right turn, but every year when I get back into it, the right turn comes and bites me in the ass. Right now paying for private lessons is not an option, and the people I know who are advanced skiers do not know how to teach it since they are the same age. I will do that drill on my heads next time I'm up, I've done something very similar in the past, kind of a lifting my skis up and down while skiing.


I would agree that the right turn and left ski have some fear based anxiety when I have to rely on a right turn to stop me on the steeps where a fall would land me in a tree. For left turns I displace a good amount of my weight to the right leg but still keep pressure on the left. I'm guessing the problem stemmed from me only using right turns to stop when I started so I was extremely comfortable with my right ski but not with the left. 

EDIT: bootfitting is not the problem, I just got new Nordica boots fitted (supercharger enforcers) that are great, comfortable and do not have pressure points while still keeping excellent heel hold.
post #38 of 38
Thread Starter 
 Hey everyone, just got up again, took a while but I used my Monster 82s and it was hardpack with 1-2 inches fresh. The right turns were practically better than the lefts. I focused on putting weight on both skis but especially on the left ski on the right turn while doing the exercise you pointed out with only the outside ski. Everything went fine, I even did my first long turns of the season with no skidding. I'm hoping to get video once again, but I feel that if I go back to the fatties I'll probably fail just as much as last time. I felt like a new skier on my 82's. ANy thoughts?
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