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Slalom "float" outdated? - Page 2

post #31 of 38
If you extend your outside leg, tip the legs fairly radically, and bring the center across towards the middle of the turn BEFORE the fall line, or as you're entering it, the energy (momentum, rebound, and centrifugal force) can exert quite a load against the snow through the edge.

If you don't have the edge angle here, the skis will drift and not load up, you'll have to pivot to redirect the skis. When they load up, they flex severely and that tightens the turn.

If you lighten up--mainly by retraction--(and in this thread, I contend that you soften the angle slightly), you unload the pressure on the ski.

Traditionally, that pressure was later in the turn. These days it is way early. It is an advantage as well to soften up the pressure at the end, because there is so much load available from centrifugal force and momentum downhill that the skis will turn too much here. This is the time when, in slalom, you want to get the hell out of the turn.

Make sense?
post #32 of 38
Thread Starter 
Makes sense, but I think I would get into a lot of heel pushing and skidding trying to make it happen. I'll have to play with it some and review the video from race camp to see what I'm doing and how it can be improved.

Right now my main issues are getting in the backseat (mental problem- fear) and avoiding trying to cross block, which usually leads to me rotating the upper body to whack that stupid pole out of the way.

All in all, though, my slalom has gotten much better this year. Next year I hope I can continue my progress and not look so silly during Masters race video reviews.
post #33 of 38
I'm not sure I agree on Bode. I'm gonna go buy the WC Winning Runs tape and see what I think, after watching. The impression I got in Aspen and watching the Olympics was that, from the fall line out, he had absolute mastery of his pressure. This place in the turn is also a time where overloading and overturning the ski can really be done easily (because of the downhill momentum). He seemed to me to have an ability to retract further than anyone else--even after a very powerful loading up top.

I also see, in conjunction with this, an ability to hold the hips forward. He seems to be able to tuck the lower part of his pelvis forward a bunch. This allows tremendous range of motion all the way up to the chest--lengthening the susupension system, and allowing that pressure mastery. I think I see this in Mario Matt as well.

I understand that, in these sorts of analyses, one tends to see what one wants to see, but what struck me as very weird is that what Bode does at the end of the turn, just didn't seem possible. It looked like he was doing everything to put himself into the back seat, yet never went there.

Again, take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm only perfect.
post #34 of 38
Great thread! It reinforces my view of the modern racing turn.

Do any of you get any grief from the people you taught the float-touch-sting to back in the day?

How about "tip-center-tail"? Is that adage from the '80s passe as well?
post #35 of 38
You can soften up the turn before the end. That makes for a real nice GS turn. I'll have to watch some WC video to check, but I don't think the Miller, Kostlic and company are softening the end of their slalom turns. The other thing to think about are they softening their turns or starting a new turn.
Actually, I know that Bode Miller doesn't but he seems to be in his own space as far as technique and line go.

Also I love this quote
"This is the time when, in slalom, you want to get the hell out of the turn."

AK mike
Loading the top of the turn is.

A hard lateral extension onto new edge. You should feel the pressure on your power ski big toe.
post #36 of 38
I think what you're calling the retraction part of the turn I would call the beginning of the new turn. Even though the previous turn hasn't ended. I have heard that Bode skis have much stiffer tails than anyone else on the world cup. He is getting a lateral rebound while he retracts.

Bode sometimes does this converging step that is kind of unique.


"tip-center-tail" would be overkill on shorty slaloms. The front to back weight shift is still there but not nearly as extreme.
post #37 of 38
Nordie, fair enough.

Nblno, I agree with Nordie. There just ain't room on the slaloms. I think the appearance is there because, in photos, you see the cm behind the boots at the end and over the boots in the middle. But I think the photos are deceptive, because they don't show the energy dynamics. What may look back may actually be "dynamically" right in the center.

However, there is clearly the picture of an advance of the feet through the end of the turn.

I think slalom turns these days are almost as beautiful as GS.

I wish racing was marketed differently. It tends to be looked at as part of skiing, and therefore stuff like slopestyle and halfpipe are easier to grasp.

Racing should be marketed like NASCAR or horse racing. It's more about racing than skiing. Anyone can drive a car, however racing one is a very different game. And the exquisite beauty and skill of the athletes is way underrated.
post #38 of 38
A couple thoughts on "cross blocking"(an oxymoron I think).
1.If you have to "cross" you're not far enough inside the turn. World Cup skiers use the inside arm(reverse shoulder) when they find themselves too far outside. I have caught this on tape more than once.
2.The past is history. It's too late to do anything about the present. You can only effect the future. By concentrating on clearing the pole you momentarily freeze yourself in the present not allowing preparation for the next gate. I teach my kids to concentrate on the "pole plant"(every WC skier does it, including Matt) beyond the gate. The outside clear(correct term)will happen natually and you'll stay "ahead" of the course.

[ April 30, 2002, 06:43 AM: Message edited by: SLATZ ]
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