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Why do people think East Coast Skiing sucks??? - Page 39

post #1141 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by COBillsFan View Post
 

I'm sure you were the only one on that run. After all, it only opens for competitions. You must be quite the freeriding boss if you're on the tour.

That was my entire original point. Comparing what is considered expert terrain, east to west, using two freeride venues as examples.

 

Haha, oh, must have been a different line, then. I skied all the North Face, didn't realize this line is specifically only open for freeride comps. I think the real point is that it's pretty unfair and just stupid to say nobody from the east coast could ever ski that. Obviously way different from what you find out east, but not unskiable for east coast skiers by any means.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by agreen View Post
 

 

And I'm sure you had never been out west before that? Your only practice came from the gnar in the east?

 

I mean, I've taken a few (less than 5) trips out west, including Crested Butte. Vast majority of my practice comes from the east coast. Turns out dropping cliffs in the woods is good practice for dropping cliffs in rock gardens.

post #1142 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post
 

 

 

Clearly you haven't skied in the east enough.  There Is plenty of backcountry stuff in NY, VT, NH and ME that is just as technical, if not MORE technical than anything inbounds at Crested Butte.  Sorry, you lose, period.

 

And you are basing your opinion (that runs completely counter to near universally held opinions and objective evidence) on what exactly? Your evidence hasn't exactly been compelling thus far. 

post #1143 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watts View Post
 

 I think the real point is that it's pretty unfair and just stupid to say nobody from the east coast could ever ski that. Obviously way different from what you find out east, but not unskiable for east coast skiers by any means.

 

 

I would totally agree with this. I think proving a negative by saying NOBODY can come out and acquit themselves is an unwinnable argument.

 

Unfortunately, some other participants in this thread seem to think your "obvious" statement about CB being way different than what you find out East is not so obvious.

post #1144 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watts View Post
 

 

Haha, oh, must have been a different line, then. I skied all the North Face, didn't realize this line is specifically only open for freeride comps. I think the real point is that it's pretty unfair and just stupid to say nobody from the east coast could ever ski that. Obviously way different from what you find out east, but not unskiable for east coast skiers by any means.

It could be done. But for an exclusive east coast expert? Not a chance.

 

You can zip bump runs and icy birch glades all day out east, but you will not find that combination of pitch and hazards anywhere. That’s the point. You will plateau in your abilities until you can challenge yourself with that type of terrain. I grew up skiing the east and searched plenty for the gnar. It’s just not the same.

 

If an ECer spent time out west previously and has that experience, that’s a different conversation

post #1145 of 1619
So the conclusion here seems to be that since a few western resorts have a few lines that are more difficult than what you find at eastern resorts, that means that eastern skiing sucks and eastern skiers suck. Patently ridiculous. This thread makes me ashamed to be a western skier.
post #1146 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post
 

 

I would totally agree with this. I think proving a negative by saying NOBODY can come out and acquit themselves is an unwinnable argument.

 

Unfortunately, some other participants in this thread seem to think your "obvious" statement about CB being way different than what you find out East is not so obvious.

 

For me the bigger point is that the whole attitude of "I ski the west coast which therefore means I'm better than everyone from the east coast and they could never ski the stuff I ski" is just really incredibly annoying. I don't care which coast is better, but don't act like skiing on one coast makes you inherently superior in every way to people who ski on the other. There are lots of really good west coast skiers who could come east and rip, there are lots of really good east coast skiers who could go west and rip, there are lots of east coast skiers who couldn't go west and rip, there are lots of west coast skiers who couldn't come east and rip. Saying otherwise is just obnoxious.

post #1147 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watts View Post
 

 

For me the bigger point is that the whole attitude of "I ski the west coast which therefore means I'm better than everyone from the east coast and they could never ski the stuff I ski" is just really incredibly annoying. I don't care which coast is better, but don't act like skiing on one coast makes you inherently superior in every way to people who ski on the other. There are lots of really good west coast skiers who could come east and rip, there are lots of really good east coast skiers who could go west and rip, there are lots of east coast skiers who couldn't go west and rip, there are lots of west coast skiers who couldn't come east and rip. Saying otherwise is just obnoxious.

 

I can see where you could see that as the statement, but I don't think that is intended. 

 

I think the royal peeve that set this off (at least for me) was persons making statements that are objectively not correct. We can think whatever we want about Eastern skiing and Eastern skiers, but the objective fact is that snowfall and steeps are a Western advantage. There are thousands and thousands of acres of 35*+ terrain in the inbounds West, and very isolated areas of such inbounds in the East.

 

I think we can all agree that there are good skiers and good fun to be had on either coast, but that doesn't mean that the mountains are the same, and it is really laughable to take one of the most notorious areas of one of the most notorious resorts and compare it to a resort that probably doesn't even have the best terrain in the East... THAT is what is drawing the derision in my eyes, not the skiers.

post #1148 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by UllrIsLord View Post

So the conclusion here seems to be that since a few western resorts have a few lines that are more difficult than what you find at eastern resorts, that means that eastern skiing sucks and eastern skiers suck. Patently ridiculous. This thread makes me ashamed to be a western skier.

 

If you look through the last dozen pages of arguments you'll see that many aren't making the argument that East coast skiing sucks. They/I would make the argument that West coast skiing has a larger diversity of terrain and better conditions than the east coast. The east coast can be great skiing and it can be -- if skiing at all can be -- sucky skiing.

 

Skiing out west doesn't make me a better skier than my East coast brethren. Regularly I find myself happy I grew up skiing the east because it gave me more understanding of what less-than-ideal conditions can be like. It makes me happier to be out West on non-perfect days than most my friends who've only skied the West seem to be. 

post #1149 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post
 

 

And you are basing your opinion (that runs completely counter to near universally held opinions and objective evidence) on what exactly? Your evidence hasn't exactly been compelling thus far. 

 

I'm just getting started.

 

http://www.famousinternetskiers.com/a-hole/

post #1150 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by COBillsFan View Post
 

It could be done. But for an exclusive east coast expert? Not a chance.

 

You can zip bump runs and icy birch glades all day out east, but you will not find that combination of pitch and hazards anywhere. That’s the point. You will plateau in your abilities until you can challenge yourself with that type of terrain. I grew up skiing the east and searched plenty for the gnar. It’s just not the same.

 

If an ECer spent time out west previously and has that experience, that’s a different conversation

 

Like I said, I've taken a handful or trips out west, but never spent extensive time out there. Not sure how you would define "exclusive," but probably 98 or 99% of the ski days in my life have been on the east coast.

post #1151 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post
 

 

I can see where you could see that as the statement, but I don't think that is intended. 

 

I think the royal peeve that set this off (at least for me) was persons making statements that are objectively not correct. We can think whatever we want about Eastern skiing and Eastern skiers, but the objective fact is that snowfall and steeps are a Western advantage. There are thousands and thousands of acres of 35*+ terrain in the inbounds West, and very isolated areas of such inbounds in the East.

 

I think we can all agree that there are good skiers and good fun to be had on either coast, but that doesn't mean that the mountains are the same, and it is really laughable to take one of the most notorious areas of one of the most notorious resorts and compare it to a resort that probably doesn't even have the best terrain in the East... THAT is what is drawing the derision in my eyes, not the skiers.

 

Sure seemed like that was what was intended when COBillsfan said: "An east coast expert ain’t getting off the plane and skiing that. Not a chance in hell." But you're right, I could be reading it wrong.

post #1152 of 1619
So here's the real question. Why do eastern skiers care what western skiers think about them,?
post #1153 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watts View Post
 

 

Like I said, I've taken a handful or trips out west, but never spent extensive time out there. Not sure how you would define "exclusive," but probably 98 or 99% of the ski days in my life have been on the east coast. Sure seemed like that was what was intended when COBillsfan said: "An east coast expert ain’t getting off the plane and skiing that. Not a chance in hell." But you're right, I could be reading it wrong.

Exclusive is just that, exclusive. Expert at east coast terrain and hasn’t experienced western terrain. It sounds like you’re not that type and have experienced upper caliber expert western terrain, which is fine. I didn’t intend to judge your abilities.

 

Keep in mind that exact line in particular, in my reasonable opinion,  is something that maybe 10% of really, really good skiers and riders (“expert” is very overused) with very consistent western terrain experience could handle, and that might be generous, so the “east coaster off the plane” comments are originating from that.   

post #1154 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

So here's the real question. Why do eastern skiers care what western skiers think about them,?

and why does it always boil down to "the gnarr"

 

"East is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet."  I never knew Rudyard Kipling was a skier!

post #1155 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by UllrIsLord View Post

So the conclusion here seems to be that since a few western resorts have a few lines that are more difficult than what you find at eastern resorts, that means that eastern skiing sucks and eastern skiers suck. Patently ridiculous. This thread makes me ashamed to be a western skier.

 

If that's the conclusion you've gleaned, then apparently you haven't read the thread.

 

The conclusion is that Eastern skiing is generally inferior in terms of terrain, snow quality and challenge. It does not, by itself, "suck, but it's inferior on all reasonably quantifiable measures.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

So here's the real question. Why do eastern skiers care what western skiers think about them,?

Apparently or they wouldn't be going so apoplectic when some 700 acre, 1200vertical icy berm gets dissed.

post #1156 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmeb View Post
 

 

 Regularly I find myself happy I grew up skiing the east because it gave me more understanding of what less-than-ideal conditions can be like. It makes me happier to be out West on non-perfect days than most my friends who've only skied the West seem to be. 

 

Well, right.  I mean, when I move west (for winters at least), I expect to be a totally content, a zen Buddha skier, one fat grin all day long, even if it hasn't snowed in weeks.  Why? Because I will always be able to trust my edges!! 

 

You guys out west don't understand how good it is, just to be able to trust that the skis will arc when you mean them to.

post #1157 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by COBillsFan View Post
 

It could be done. But for an exclusive east coast expert? Not a chance.

 

You can zip bump runs and icy birch glades all day out east, but you will not find that combination of pitch and hazards anywhere. That’s the point. You will plateau in your abilities until you can challenge yourself with that type of terrain. I grew up skiing the east and searched plenty for the gnar. It’s just not the same.

 

Mostly I've been on the "hey, who cares" side, but this "plateau" b.s. is so bass ackward it requires a comment. No it's not the same (duh, you have another 6,000 ft or so), but what does that mean, exactly, in terms of "challenge?" It is not random noise in the system that so many U.S. Ski Team Members have come from New England. FWIW, I grew up and went to college in California, skiing all over the west, have since skied all over North America, literally, and have lived in New England for 37 years. 

 

So first reality: There's a technique connection between zipping icy bumps or trees and zipping gates. You can be fairly damn sloppy in soft open snow. You'll be fairly damn in the ER if you try sloppy in icy bumps or trees or gates. Statistically, trees are waay more likely to kill you than a rock band in a chute. 

 

From which second reality follows: If you can handle those bumps and trees, pitch is not the issue you make it out to be. (Or maybe you just have a fear of heights; many do.) Tuckerman's is steeper than most chutes you have out west, with just as much potential for catastrophe, and any number of resorts back here have sections of our infamously tight and twisty runs that are comparable to longer stretches of some terrain out west. Go look up pitch numbers if you don't believe me. Or if you missed the gnar, go try Ruth's Run at Smuggs (unmarked, check with a local), and see how you do taking the fall line shoulder width granite ledges partly covered by frozen waterfalls and bordered by tight trees. Doing controlled jump turns at the top of a 45 or 50 degree chute isn't any more technically "challenging," I've done both. Just different. 

post #1158 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by COBillsFan View Post
 

Exclusive is just that, exclusive. Expert at east coast terrain and hasn’t experienced western terrain. It sounds like you’re not that type and have experienced upper caliber expert western terrain, which is fine. I didn’t intend to judge your abilities.

 

Keep in mind that exact line in particular, in my reasonable opinion,  is something that maybe 10% of really, really good skiers and riders (“expert” is very overused) with very consistent western terrain experience could handle, and that might be generous, so the “east coaster off the plane” comments are originating from that.   

 

Honestly, this feels like a cop out. Yeah, I've spent a couple weeks out west before, but I wouldn't say that those experiences ever made me a significantly better skier. Everything I know and learned about skiing came from skiing the east coast. I go out west and then ski what I can because it's there, and it's a different sort of challenge which makes it a whole lot of fun, but I haven't exactly spent enough time out there to learn to ski a different way and handle a different level of terrain. I've never gone for a trip out west and come back east feeling like I've upped my skill level in any meaningful way.

 

And yeah, you're definitely right, maybe I wouldn't be able to ski that particular line, hell I probably couldn't if your estimations are correct, but I think I did the rest of the north face, which was obviously not easy by any means and still a big challenge, without ever really feeling like I was way, way over my head. And obviously I'm not the best skier on the east coast, there are plenty of guys/girls skiing in New England who can handle lots of stuff I couldn't.

post #1159 of 1619

If you look for challenging skiing you can find it east or west.  Heck I've got hundreds of acres of crown land nearby, and I can find challenging back country skiing within 15 minutes of my back door, no lifts and no AT gear though, so I don't.

 

Skiing fast was my addiction back in the day. If you look for speed, you can find it more easily in the western mountains than in the eastern hills; Appalachians are not the Rockies, in fact the do not even equal the coastal range.  IIRC, I have skied much faster on a little 1647 ft vertical mountain out west than I have at Jay Peak (2153 ft) and Mt. Tremblant (2871 ft) because I was able to find steeper lines to ski.  And I have skied everything I could find at those two eastern resorts.  I admit I haven't been to stow.

 

Skiing east does not suck, but if speed is your thing, it doesn't compare to skiing west.

post #1160 of 1619
Good lord. This thread is moving along at mach silly. Moved from Michigan to CA years ago. First trip to Tahoe and Squaw, skied the whole place, did KT 22 laps, etc.... It was magical with a bout 8" of new snow. Had no trouble adjusting to and skiing the terrain even though it was much 'more' than Michigan. I remember my first thought being that if I'd had access to mountain terrain as a kid, I'd have probably never raced. On the other hand, racing gave me the basics that were translatable to all other terrain and snow condtions. Skiing is skiing. Turns are turns. Sometimes there's more, sometimes less. Sometimes the snow is hard, sometimes it's soft. Where it happens is less important than how much it happens.
post #1161 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 

 Tuckerman's is steeper than most chutes you have out west,  

 

As anachronism pointed out, it's the objectively incorrect statements like the above that keep many coming back to this thread.  Seriously?  You know all of the backcountry runs out West?  There's literally thousands of them.  So Tucks is steeper than "most"......so it's still NOT steeper than thousands of them, safe to say.  What a ridiculous statement.  Good grief.  :rolleyes

post #1162 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post

 

I know at least a dozen east coast experts that could ski that run, including myself..  There is plenty of stuff in NH and VT that is that technical.

 

Wait a minute... Josh is that you? Version 2.0 = no spelling mistakes. Moved from Stowe to Killington. Now we just need to find TCC again. Any east coast intermediates want to chime in if its worth it to come west?

post #1163 of 1619

I’m really interested in this skiable rock spine across from the Pico condos.

The continual overhyping of a few select eastern lines and glossing over of ridiculous inbounds and backcountry runs out west as “no biggie” are hilarious.

post #1164 of 1619

I'm sure most east coasters head right to Corbets, peer over the edge, and think to themselves "oh, this is just like Killington"

post #1165 of 1619
after reading this thread I think I need to change my memory bank of ski trips the past few years. It is obvious that I should cancel my ski pass to perfect north as I went there over 40 days last winter and suffered a miserable experience on a 400 foot vert hill that most on this website would rather be dead that take a list up or should I say "western" skiers. It is also clear to me that the best skier at perfect north would probably qualify to carry the western skiers base layers on this thread and that would probably be about all they could do. I am not sure why I seem to have a smile on my face when I slide down that hill but while I'm doing it I enjoy it. I guess my realization that it just sucks hasn't sunk in yet.

In regards to my trip to snowshoe the past two season I need to change how I saw that trip. Two years ago when we got 2 foot of powder over 2 nights it was just miserable. The moisture content was .002% higher than Alta Utah therefore the entire experience sucked. The fact that the steepest run there is only around 30* makes the resort flat and just no fun at all. In fact I am dreading the thought of going back. Last year when they got two foot of snow the week prior to arrival just sucked. The conditions were packed powder and bump runs were nice but since they weren't as nice as some place in Colorado I've never been I must have been hallucinating in order to have a smile on my face.

I guess according to western skier I should just pack it in and sell my skis as I will not be able to enjoy myself skiing an inferior resort.


I think I will just be happy and enjoy myself regardless of what some internet map says the steepness is.

seriously does every western skier check the steepness at end of run and if it wasn't 40* it wasn't fun? Who cares? Why do stats matter at end of the day ? Slap the boots and skis on have fun wherever your at.


Can any western skier really honestly tell me that if they were dropped off for the day at Killington or any other eastern resort that they would have had a miserable time? I guarantee that anyone on this site would figure out a way to enjoy the day and if you couldn't that's on you not the east.


Sure most Rocky Mountain resort is gonna be better than Appalachian mountain resorts. Enjoy what you got and travel to the other side if you want.

Can someone tell me how to photo shop my pictures as they are always smiles when skiing yet this thread tells me I should frown? smile.gif
post #1166 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by COBillsFan View Post
 

I’m really interested in this skiable rock spine across from the Pico condos.

 

It's above The Inn at Long Trail. Ordering a black & tan in the Irish pub inside is more difficult (advice don't do that).

post #1167 of 1619

Seems to me that maybe this entire thread is just one big argument over the definition of the word "sucks". 

post #1168 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbostedo View Post
 

Seems to me that maybe this entire thread is just one big argument over the definition of the word "sucks". 


Yep. In case anyone is not sure about this, this thread lost all value about 38-1/2 pages ago.

post #1169 of 1619
Quote:
Originally Posted by steamboat1 View Post
 

It's above The Inn at Long Trail. Ordering a black & tan in the Irish pub inside is more difficult (advice don't do that).

I’d order a new jawbone first, because that cliff to flat is going to hurt.

post #1170 of 1619

I have not read all of the nonsense in this thread, just some of it. IMO there is one main reason that east coast skiing sucks: the WEATHER.

 

PNW, not with standing*, in the rest of the West, thanks in large part to high elevation in the western US and high latitude in western Canada, the snow is mostly dry and light and often times if it gets colder after a storm more moisture gets sucked out of the snow and it is even better quality a day or two after the storm. Temperature fluctuations are also far greater in the east than west which plays havoc with the quality of the snow pack as well as any fresh snow. When coastal skiers from Vancouver ski the B.C. Interior for the first time the most common comment is on snow quality and how much easier it is to ski.

 

In the simplest of terms, the west gets more snow and the east gets more rain. They both have places that can get brutally cold.

 

*As far as the PNW goes, they make up for a lack of high quality snow with very high snow volumes (thanks to last season it is now necessary to add "most" years) and very fat skis.:D

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