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Diamond stone brand

post #1 of 15
11/12/09 at 12:41pm
Thread Starter 
I know that the moonflex stones have been given rave reviews by almost everyone who has used them, but for a college student on a budget, $20-30 per stone is just not feasible.  I have had a set of DMT stones, but they have worn out and as such I am looking for a replacement.  Are there any other lower priced alternatives that last longer than DMT?
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post #2 of 15
11/12/09 at 12:53pm
DMT are decent stones.  You can get the 70mm sized ones for about $8 each, which is half the price of the 110mm ones and 1/3 the price of moonflex stones.  Make sure you dip them in water when you use them for better results and extend their life.  Get a coarse, medium and fine grit.  Each stone should only be used about 2-3 times with light pressure along the length of the ski per edge.  If you're only tuning one pair of skis about every 3-4 times out, they should last you at least a few years (depending on how much you ski).

If you have multiple pairs of skis or ski a lot, I would think the cost of some tuning stones is negligible compared to other skiing costs.
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post #3 of 15
11/12/09 at 1:23pm

You get what you pay for regarding DMT pricing versus diamonds. One budget option is to purchase aluminum oxide and/or Arkansas stones.

We have a couple 70mm Maplus 100 grit at 60% off left and some rigid backed 200 grit (Maplus branded Moonfaces), 100mm at 20% off.


Edited by Alpinord - 8/14/11 at 8:20am
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post #4 of 15
11/12/09 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post

DMT pricing versus diamonds.
 

DMTs are diamonds. Indeed, that's what the "D" stands for (with the "M" and "T" standing for "Machining" and "Technology," respectively). So far as I understand it, the company is the originator of the diamond-faced sharpening tool.
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post #5 of 15
11/12/09 at 4:37pm
This was very helpful to the discussion, SJ. I had no idea that this was true. Thanks for clarifying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjjohnston View Post
DMTs are diamonds. Indeed, that's what the "D" stands for (with the "M" and "T" standing for "Machining" and "Technology," respectively). So far as I understand it, the company is the originator of the diamond-faced sharpening tool.

Apparently, others have figured out to make their diamonds last longer and provide a better value to the consumer, overall.
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post #6 of 15
11/15/09 at 1:35pm
Thread Starter 
I will be tuning 2 pairs of skis on average about twice per week.  I got both pairs of skis for $550 so spending $75-100 compared to $25 on stones is still a substantial increase in cost.  Since I am hoping not to have to purchase skis next year, I should have a larger budget for supplies then so I am really only looking for a season long solution.  That being said, I am thinking I will just pick up the same set of 3 DMT stones I got before and should be able to get by with that. 
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post #7 of 15
11/15/09 at 4:16pm
But have they really worn out or are they just loaded with wax and need a cleaning?  I'd get a stiff  toothbrush and some denatured alcohol first and go at them before buying another set.  Scratch them with your thumbnail and see if the stuff comes off and there's grit under it. 
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post #8 of 15
11/15/09 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoth View Post
  That being said, I am thinking I will just pick up the same set of 3 DMT stones I got before and should be able to get by with that. 

You know your budget best.    Let me ask:  Does your holder/tuner take files as well as stones? 

  'F'so, consider a really good ~16tpi file to go with those DMTs.      Especially if it's only your blue DMT that's worn out, and the others are still mostly good.

Oh, and what sibhusky said.
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post #9 of 15
11/15/09 at 7:07pm
Thread Starter 
Yeah, they are definitely worn out, i cant even scratch glass with the black one or the blue one after cleaning them. Probably a combination of 3 years of tuning and taking a while to really learn how much pressure is needed.
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post #10 of 15
11/16/09 at 7:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoth View Post
 Probably a combination of 3 years of tuning and taking a while to really learn how much pressure is needed.

How long are your seasons, where you are?

3 years of tuning at 2 pairs at 2x week with a ~12-15 week season makes for about 150-190 sessions, not the best  durability but not terrible.   Assuming, of course, you were getting any sort of decent edges there at the end.

(I still think a 2nd cut file might help you out -a lot- here)
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post #11 of 15
11/16/09 at 7:15am
Or $5 aluminum oxide and/or Arkansas stones.
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post #12 of 15
11/16/09 at 7:21am
Thread Starter 
what exactly would the 2nd cut file do for me?  would it be a replacement for the coarse stone? 
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post #13 of 15
11/16/09 at 8:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoth View Post

what exactly would the 2nd cut file do for me?  would it be a replacement for the coarse stone? 

Not a "replacement" so much as "subcontractor".

Right now your coarse stones have 2 jobs:
1 get rid of dings and hardened spots (2-3 maybe 4 passes per edge *max*)
2 reshape edges (more passes per edge)

The 2nd cut file takes over job #2 (and it is far better at it than the coarse DMT stones), so a typical session might go:

- 2-3 passes with black stone or blue stone per edge, depending on condition, but _not_ both.
- 2nd cut file to reshape (if needed).
- polishing passes with red stone (and green stone if wanted).  

Apologies if I misremembered the color/coarseness order of these, I'm using  BBaRGe as the mnemonic for DMTs?

The tuning order with Arkansas stones would perhaps look a little different; I'll let Alpinord speak to that.
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post #14 of 15
11/16/09 at 8:55am
There are still 'old school' tuners who prefer stones to diamonds for cutting and polishing their edges, plus they last a long time and could be part of a longer term, phased in approach if you are truly on a budget. You'll never regret having the stones in your kit for a variety of purposes (ski tuning and other reasons).

With a 120x or 180x alum oxide, you deburr and do initial cutting and finer ones for subsequent levels of polishing. I do not recall the relative grit of a typical Arkansas, but it feels like in the neighborhood of 200x. A surgical Arkansas is super fine and used for finish polishing. Some don't need more than a 200x, while others like up to a 1500x and everything in between. Depending on what you prefer, then you will need to purchase accordingly. One budget approach is to purchase the finer diamond for now and the less costly stones and then phase in the coarser diamond(s) later.


Also, IIRC, a super fine (or fine??) file is in the relative 'coarseness/cutting level' of a 100x diamond. Correct me if I'm wrong. The 2nd cuts more.
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post #15 of 15
11/16/09 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post

Also, IIRC, a super fine (or fine??) file is in the relative 'coarseness/cutting level' of a 100x diamond. Correct me if I'm wrong. The 2nd cuts more.

I don't think you are  incorrect, the relative amount of material is probably about comparable.

The file, however, has far more continuous, even cut that leaves a smoother finish surface than 100x diamond.  

So, in this instance, a 2nd cut file takes quite a bit more material off than a blue DMT, but leaves a more continuous edge with a smoother finish than blue DMT.   If the OP were to start with a pretty dinged-up base,  10 passes or so of the blue DMT  can thus be replaced by 2 passes of the blue (or black) stone and 1-2 passes with the file.

The downside is the burr, which later polishing takes off.
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