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Why do most people associate speed with skill? - Page 4

post #91 of 118
Speed and skill are correlated, because good skiers can carve turns.  Carving is certainly more efficient and stable than sliding turns!  Can you imagine a World Cup racer skidding his/her turns at 80 MPH?  This is not to be confused with out of control idiots who bomb intermediate slopes but have no clue about balance, edging, transitions, etc. and completely fall apart on steep or icy slopes.  These clowns skid their turns and usually--hell, almost always--are in the back seat.

A better example is with snow boarders.  Almost all who go fast are indeed out of control* but watching an expert on a carving board slice a perfect arc is a thing of beauty.  Carving is carving, regardless of what is under your feet.  And carving turns allows you to ski faster under control.

* This is one reason why the Deer Valley's of the world don't want snow boarders.  The truth is skiers are just as bad, but their two skis give them slightly better control keeping beginners and intermediates from smashing into others.
post #92 of 118
Quant- show me any- just one Worldcup skier at 80 mph that doesn't skid thier turns at some point during a run. Carving is fun, when theres nothing else to do. I am with Jer on this one for the most part, I ski down them to get to where I'm going.
post #93 of 118
If the slope is easy, the only way to make it interesting is to ski it fast. that's why there are so many problems on intermediate runs. ^^^^^^
post #94 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

Quant- show me any- just one Worldcup skier at 80 mph that doesn't skid thier turns at some point during a run. Carving is fun, when theres nothing else to do. I am with Jer on this one for the most part, I ski down them to get to where I'm going.

Of course no one can arc every turn, nor would you want to.  The point is WC skiers can use their edges.  And yes, they are mostly carving turns.  Watch the last GS on You Tube.  Do you think Cuche and Ligety were steering, stivoting or whatever all the way down the hill?  Heck no.  Carving into every turn isn't optimal for speed and it is impossible the way the gates are set.  But there were carved turns around the 44 or whatever gates they ran.

The question was "Why do most people associate speed with skill?"  I am not advocating that you or anyone else ski any way other than what you enjoy, providing you ride safely.  But you can't ski fast under control unless you can carve, and you can't carve unless you have balance and can use your edges.  That is why speed is associated with skill.
post #95 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by quant2325 View Post

 But you can't ski fast under control unless you can carve
 

You've either found a way to defy the laws of physics or me and every other powder skier I've ever seen are complete gapers.

I think the big disconnect here is between the groomer zoomers and the off-piste guys. You can't carve turns in powder. You can however ski pretty fast.
post #96 of 118
you can't carve turns on high angle mogul fields, can't in long narrow chutes,   can't (better not) when sh#@ is hairy and you don't know what's coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post




,,,,,,..

I think the big disconnect here is between the groomer zoomers and the off-piste guys. You can't carve turns in powder. You can however ski pretty fast.
 
post #97 of 118
Agreed.  You can ski very fast through moguls (I can't, though) or in powder w/o carving.  Therefore, the association between skill and speed comes from ________________________.  What word(s) should be used to fill in the blank?  "The ability to contol skis" or "the ability to remain in balance" or something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post




You've either found a way to defy the laws of physics or me and every other powder skier I've ever seen are complete gapers.

I think the big disconnect here is between the groomer zoomers and the off-piste guys. You can't carve turns in powder. You can however ski pretty fast.
 
post #98 of 118
Quote:

You can't carve turns in powder. You can however ski pretty fast.
 


Jer, I think I must have a different definition of carving than you

I do agree that carving is not everything, but niether is high speed.
JF

post #99 of 118
the only association I can think that makes this true is that I have never seen a poor skier ski slow or fast looking like they had skills; Most poor skiers don't ski fast though. I think it may be a true statement that most good skiers enjoy skiing faster, the ability to ski fast in control is another aspect of skiing, it's more of that flying feeling whether on groomers or off-piste.
post #100 of 118
Didn't anyone else find this post odd? is it just me? was there a post deleted before this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by burton4life View Post

TO ADD TO THIS CONVO. well, i am honored to share my opinion. you getting blown by your friends on a blue trail is not setting a good example for the kids. cmon guy i have a son and i don't need him seeing this stuff. moderators please ban this guy for being innapropriate. i thought i would finally let my 13 year old son get an account on this site but i guess not! and of course they won't blow you on more difficult trails. theres no flat place to stop.
post #101 of 118
Hey Quant, the use of the term Carving has a painful history so yes, they use thier edges as needed, slashing, pivoting, carving, sliding, skidding, drifting..... I hope I covered them all. Again, a true statement is that WC skiers can ski slow or fast with skill.  But another example is that WC skiers ski fast.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by quant2325 View Post




Of course no one can arc every turn, nor would you want to.  The point is WC skiers can use their edges.  And yes, they are mostly carving turns.  Watch the last GS on You Tube.  Do you think Cuche and Ligety were steering, stivoting or whatever all the way down the hill?  Heck no.  Carving into every turn isn't optimal for speed and it is impossible the way the gates are set.  But there were carved turns around the 44 or whatever gates they ran.

The question was "Why do most people associate speed with skill?"  I am not advocating that you or anyone else ski any way other than what you enjoy, providing you ride safely.  But you can't ski fast under control unless you can carve, and you can't carve unless you have balance and can use your edges.  That is why speed is associated with skill.
 
post #102 of 118
I always thought of carving as the tail edge of your ski following more or less the exact same path as the tip edge. This is only possible on harder snow because in powder or any other soft snow you are actually using your base to turn instead of your steel edge and the softer snow is giving way as you turn so by default you are skidding the turn. You may be making a powerful arced turn, but you are skidding.

I don't really pay attention to racing anymore, but I think even most racers on modern skis skid way more than most people think.It's not because they suck, but because pure carving is really really hard to do on a rutted course. I know this will date me, but watch some old footage of Franz Klammer. The skiers before or after his runs will be making quite a bit of noise with their edges while Klammer's skis will be relatively quiet. That's because Klammer was carving more.....and skiing faster too.
post #103 of 118
I looked back and I looked around and I couldn't find mention of a blown blue anywhere.

He did earlier give me some sh@# about something.

I found it all odd, since you asked

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post


Didn't anyone else find this post odd? is it just me? was there a post deleted before this?


 
post #104 of 118

back to a point being made back a few posts

talking about speed and powder and carving and all


To me powder skiing is not the undisputed apex of the skiing experience, because you don't use any edge. Wind buff is a condition with equal stoke for be because it is the pure sensation of everything your edge can do. the G's are pretty cool too.

post #105 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

If the slope is easy, the only way to make it interesting is to ski it fast. that's why there are so many problems on intermediate runs. ^^^^^^

If the slopes is too easy to be "interesting" at normal speed, why are you on it in the first place? 

(or I should say "second place", allowing a single pass to confirm it's un-interesting)
post #106 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

back to a point being made back a few posts

talking about speed and powder and carving and all


To me powder skiing is not the undisputed apex of the skiing experience, because you don't use any edge. Wind buff is a condition with equal stoke for be because it is the pure sensation of everything your edge can do. the G's are pretty cool too.


sure you edge doesnt dig in but you can platform, and with big enough skis you can platform quite hard.
post #107 of 118
I wasn't talking about myself, but more the people that use those slopes, and the collisions and mishaps they endure. 

And sometimes those slopes are the connector runs to other chairs when you're going around the mountain to change location, so you have to ski them en route.

And are you inferring that I shouldn't rip the blue groomer if it was interesting to me?


 BWinP, it would be extremely expert and extreme as a debate whether powder or wind buff should be the ultimate turn.
 I told you my skis were already way over my head, so I'm on the big skis you dig so much   


Quote:
Originally Posted by at_nyc View Post


If the slopes is too easy to be "interesting" at normal speed, why are you on it in the first place? 

(or I should say "second place", allowing a single pass to confirm it's un-interesting)
 
post #108 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by at_nyc View Post


If the slopes is too easy to be "interesting" at normal speed, why are you on it in the first place? 

(or I should say "second place", allowing a single pass to confirm it's un-interesting)
 

A lot of times skiing lame runs is unavoidable. Take Alta for instance - lots of nice steep shots followed a flat runout
post #109 of 118
maybe deep powderi s great because there are minunal G's as you flow with gravity and the snow.

And wind buff is great because you build Gs as you hold an edge in arc to arc turns

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post




sure you edge doesnt dig in but you can platform, and with big enough skis you can platform quite hard.

Edited by davluri - 11/23/09 at 3:19pm
post #110 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by burton4life View Post

TO ADD TO THIS CONVO. well, i am honored to share my opinion. you getting blown by your friends on a blue trail is not setting a good example for the kids. cmon guy i have a son and i don't need him seeing this stuff. moderators please ban this guy for being innapropriate. i thought i would finally let my 13 year old son get an account on this site but i guess not! and of course they won't blow you on more difficult trails. theres no flat place to stop.

Getting beat down the hill by your friends on a blue trail is not good!  Thats what you are saying?  Not setting an example for what kids, the one's you are racing on a blue run?  On a snowboard - a Burton one at that.

When I first read this I thought you were admonishing speeders but when really analyzing your prose-thats not what you said. Ban what guy for being inappropriate.  NO ONE, that I have ever noticed is skiing at Warp 7 across my computer screen.

Who won't blow who off more difficult trails and who said anything about stopping? 

And for Moderators here on Epic to monitor your 13yr old son - thats your job not ours. Besides I don't ski Blue Runs only double diamonds, with cliffs, trees and no geeks that get in the way.  Also these runs are accessed only after a long uphill travers so I never see a Burton out there either.

BURTON, Welcome to Epic and don't take us too seriously.

PS.  OK? Finndog?
post #111 of 118
Pete, I find the faster I go, the easier it is to avoid the trolls.
post #112 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat View Post

Pete, I find the faster I go, the easier it is to avoid the trolls.


No doubt about it.  The little buggers keep jumping out everywhere. BUTT (sic) I am going so fast they are just a blur in the rearview mirror.
post #113 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post


Didn't anyone else find this post odd? is it just me? was there a post deleted before this?

 
It's an attempt at humour.  Just think sexual inuendo and imagine you're reading a post on TGR.
post #114 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post

Skiing is like mountain biking for me. You don't try to be fast, you try to be smooth, and speed comes by itself.

I think that is the best way someone has described this.

An old friend of mine said a good phrase a few years back. "Skiing slow brings out more flaws then skiing fast" Skiing fast allows people to use momentum to "get away" with more without falling. Working on skiing slow has made me a much faster skier and a more aggressive skier. Of course I ski in MN most of the time so.....I ski slow to attempt to enjoy what little vertical that I do have. But, I do enjoy ripping as well.

I also enjoy skiing with my buckles undone 60% of the time (actually I just dont latch my buckles but I do use my power strap.

A fun game is to see who can latch one of their top buckles by laying it over on edge and letting the snow latch it for you.........very hard game.
post #115 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post



It's an attempt at humour.  Just think sexual inuendo and imagine you're reading a post on TGR.

 
 

If you are right Ghost and you may be - wow and I thought this might be a ski post.
post #116 of 118
Yeah, that guy was over trashing  something on a thread I was starting: saying: stupid skiers.....
post #117 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post


Well said! It's about skiing fast or slow in good form and in control. Try skiing as slow as you possibly can, just moving forward while making turns and you will see how hard it is, but also try skiing very fast in complete control (able to change speed, turn radius and direction at your will), it's just as difficult.

 

I've been a motorcycle enthusiast since I was 4.  You wouldn't believe how many people came into the shop i worked at in Tucson, who would say (after i told them so), "THIS is the FASTEST street legal bike in the world (referring to the desmosedici)?!?!  How many horsepower does it have?  it's "faster" than the hayabusa?!?"  Then I would explain fast (quarte mile) and FAST (Valentino Rossi, Motegi, Imola, etc.) and they look at ME like I'm ill informed.  DERRRR, the Hayabusa has more horsepower, derrr.  derr, why would i spend 75k on a desmosedici when i can spend 15k on a hayabusa?  FML sometimes.  Ignorance is bliss.  
It's like HARLEY riders thinking their bike is "fast."  My bike is soo fast with this S&S engine!  Shut up.  No it isn't.
Harley riders IN GENERAL have the least amount of riding skill, period. 
this whole conversation reminds me of my favorite test of skill on a bike, although i think it makes less sense on skis.  If you want to know if you are a good motorcycle rider, grab a supersport bike, preferably a ducati 848, and ride down Lombard Street at unregisterable speed.  If you can do this, you are a good rider.
post #118 of 118
Hmm, I don't think he was trying to be funny, I am not really sure that he was "trying" to be anything but I am hoping he was just a gaper using the wrong slang for something else? there's humor, sarcasm and just wierd!   that was weird... The end of the post - "no flat areas to stop", just made it over the top. 
Quote: 
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post



It's an attempt at humour.  Just think sexual inuendo and imagine you're reading a post on TGR.

 




Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete No. Idaho View Post



 

If you are right Ghost and you may be - wow and I thought this might be a ski post.

 
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