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Wacko how long have you skied? - Page 4

post #91 of 117
So Pierre, why did you and I and everybody else who have skied forever, skied narrow stance for forty years? It is not that we didn't know how to ski wide stance, EVERY beginner, no matter how they learned, skis in wide stance.

Your 'hip agaist the wall' example only holds true with the recent teaching model where sequential moves have come back in, and made easier with present equipment. Shifting weight back and forth to correct for over or under angulation etc. in wide stance is possible, if not desired, because the turns are not made, as with narrow stance, by unweighting the skis, but via lateral shift.

As you well know, with close stance on the old skis there was no need for tipping release or any other release since everything was done with no weight on the skis, as if they were in the air, and when solid contact with the snow was made again, the weight was on the new outside ski, the lead had changed and the skis were on their new edges.

After that you could tighten or drift the turns by a combination of forward pressure and edge control, and you kept balance by playing the centrifugal force against the speed and movement of the body mass inside the turn. That is easy. If you can make a turn on a bicycle without falling over you can do it on skis in a narrow stance. On a bike you don't have a parallel wide track wheel to push off of, if you leaned in a little too much you just tightened up your turn.

Since I was a teenager there has never been a time that I couldn't make my skis go exactly where I wanted them to go, give or take a couple inches. Just because we all ski wide track now, and like it, doesn't mean that in all the years before skiers couldn't ski good.

post #92 of 117
Ott - Yup, that makes perfect sense to me (but maybe that should give you cause for concern)!
post #93 of 117
In the example of Mr. Berge http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI...tem=1145858977
it would not be possible to ski in a wide stance with those low boots and long skis no?

How wide is wide? Pierre, you said you're aligned with skis 12" apart. Is this really 12" between inside edges? Are the legs straigh down from your hips?

It seems that the shorter the skis get, the less importance super close fit of boots is and the more important alignment is.
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[This message has been edited by Tog (edited May 19, 2001).]</FONT>
post #94 of 117
Where are Wacko and SnoKarver? I just read HH's article in what I guess is his newsletter concerning accredidation. I'm amzed. Now I see what all the ranting is about. There seemed to be an awful lot of comparison to PSIA. I became confused. First he states a green level accredidation is beyond the capabilities of a PSIA level two. Later he says in the same article the Green level is well beyond the capabilities of PSIA level one. He goes on to say the Green level requires parallel turns and someability to coach or teach or some such nonsencical verbiage and STATES OTHER INSTRUCTORS CAN"T DO THIS! That's kind of painting with a rather broad brush. He finishes off the article by saying no bump run is required. WELL BEYOND THE CAPABILTIES OF A PSIA LEVEL ONE!!!!

It's my first taste of the guys writing. It's preposterous the claims he makes. Wacko/SnoKarver where are you guys?
post #95 of 117
Bob B, I have many thoughts on this, but I need to walk my dog. In the meantime, you may want to take a look at a thread in general skiing entitled "Where the heck are" , for an update about what is going on.
post #96 of 117
Rusty, I have wondered too, as I read his requirements to be a PMTS instructor, how does handle a skier who never instructed and wants to be an instructor, as we have in our ski schools. Does he have training courses in the Fall for never-ever instructors? How many hours of PMTS classes does the newbe have to teach before he is a green?

Seems to me, if I read this correctly, he expects skiers who apply to be a PMTS instructor to have teaching experience already. Where and in what? In PSIA ski schools or where?

post #97 of 117
welcome back BobB
You missed a lot and we lost a lot in the exchange. Gravity has pulled a great deal of good technical information off the site due to the fiasco (sad) and it was not on request from AC if anyone is wondering. I just hope all the good technical stuff is saved somewhere. I know it must be hard for him to delete the stuff too as he is passionate about skiing. Todd's prolific writing career as well as his library speak to this. Like you were trying to do, Lets put this behind us and talk skiing...

By the way, how was the paddling? post your notes on the off season sports forum...

Skiing, still, boy I wish. it's been 85+ in San Francisco the place that Mark Twain commented.. "the coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco"

Oh well. still dreaming of skiing anyway...
post #98 of 117
D-chan, Gravity usually saves anything he has written that has technical significance, since he is in the process of writing a book. I got to put that to the test when I reminded him about the 12 Teaching Systems. He had posted that topic on skilovers awhile ago, and it had not been archived. But sure enough, he still had a copy of it.
I am quite sure he does not save, however, the dialogue resulting from small minded people starting flame wars with him. That would be useless.
I will keep you guys posted about when the book is due to come out, but hopefully by then, he will be back with us.
Bob, we were writing at the same time. He really can't come back just yet.

Be Braver in your body, or your luck will leave you. DH Lawrence

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[This message has been edited by Lisamarie (edited May 19, 2001).]</FONT>
post #99 of 117
Your comments, Bob B. on stance width are interesting. Something I am curious about. The Harb people claim that it is only possible to achieve the narrow stance if you've had your alignment done. I've thinking about that for the past few hours, which explains why I am not asleep.
I need to draw an analogy from my own work. I realize that some concepts do not always directly translate to skiing, but I'll take a shot at it.
Often, in certain fitness activities, people may have trouble with specific things due to either postural alignment or equipment. Equipment can mean anything from the athletic shoes they are wearing, the height of the step, etc.
Supposing, I help my student correct all of this. And supposing that this makes it easier for them to perform the activity in a stance that is biomechanically inefficent. But so what? Why is it a good thing to let them use a less than optimal alignment, simply because they can.
What I notice for myself, when asked to do the locked boot position, is a major amount of torso movement, to the point of it being out of control.
post #100 of 117
that's quite a wide stance indeed! What type of base edge bevel do you like? (Or maybe that's not so important since you aligned your boots in this stance width.) So if you went to 190's would you use a narrower stance?

Glad you got a look at the trash that Harald writes. He's so obsessed with psia that he just can't let it go and it ruins everything he writes. This will not serve him well, since if you base your whole world on being against something your living on a house of cards. If the "enemy" changes, or is shown to be not what you claimed it is you're nowhere.

Again, I could careless about psia. I've found Harb's book offensive and annoying since I first bought it 3 years ago and wasn't even teaching. His book is all about how great he is, yet it's written and produced terribly. hmmm.
His whole wedge thing is a total marketing ploy. (Also by renaming the wedge-"LMD" and "SMD" his trying to appropriate it !) It's such a joke, since he's been around so long and is obviously a very good teacher/skier-he knows what's going on. He knows the wedge isn't the root of all evil he just says it is so people will flock to his methods. They can understand "wedge is bad" so they think "oh o.k. he doesn't teach the wedge, his system must be good."

I could go on and on but I'll stop with that.

Bob, thanks for going into that. Since some of us haven't been around that long such discussions are informative. So I take it that the reason the inside ski boot is pressed to the outside boot is to prevent the inside ski from wandering? The drill in pmts is to ski while pressing a ball between your feet. I have other questions but I'll have to go back and reread your post.

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[This message has been edited by Tog (edited May 19, 2001).]</FONT>
post #101 of 117
Sorry, he has to re-register. But that is pretty easy.
post #102 of 117
It wasn't the use of the term "chick magnet". It was the fact that you saw fit to trivialize MY instructor's talent and intellect. And you did this on a forum where my husband was finally getting comfortable enough to post. Gee thanks.
For the record, without going into any personal details about my own experience with male ski instructors, Gravity's sucess in teaching women to ski can be partially attributed to the fact that he does NOT play the "I am the stud ski pro" role.
You and I could have had an interesting, informative debate about the teaching methods of our instructors. But you had to play the sex appeal card.
Cheap shot!
You did not use the word "girl." You said "girlfriends". There is nothing intrinsically wrong with this. And as you have implied, we have a relaxed, not pc attitude with each other. But this has come from a familiarity that has developed over time, based on mutual trust and respect.

Be Braver in your body, or your luck will leave you. DH Lawrence
post #103 of 117

Nice job! I have never engaged you directly but I have followed every post. I believe you sincerety which includes your desire to stay a participant here. Your leaving would be our loss and I mean that. If we all became like minded then nothing would learned and life would become boring.

You have taken some shots and given a few back. But what impresses me is your desire to stay active here. The summer will get things sorted out in the mean time make some turns for us flatlanders.

Later, Peace and Out

post #104 of 117
Yeah right,
The next time someone makes a "your mamma" crack you go nuts. After 3 times of this it's hard to take it seriously. later
post #105 of 117
I don't know if I buy this "major amount of torso movement" with a narrow stance. Maybe a locked stance. I don't see lots of twisting in the video where Harald is skiing. Perhaps this is why (as I think someone suggested) there such an emphasis on "letting the skis turn themselves" ?
post #106 of 117
Hey, Paul, how about going by........Paul? Hate to say it , but I do have a little more respect for people on this forum that use their real name, or at least part of it. Its
like they don't have anything to hide.
post #107 of 117

SCSA it is. It really is what I'm more about.

Now lets get to some interesting discussions on skiing!
post #108 of 117
OK, Paul.
post #109 of 117
HH is claiming that the narrow stance is optimal. So he would take issue with your statement that it is less efficient.
I believe the one difference to what you've tried is the inside boot is allowed float vertically while it is pressed into the outside boot. They are not "locked" together.

By the way, HH has an a fitness workout posted, you might want to take a look at it:
post #110 of 117
I've seen the fitness program and it is quite excellent. As a fitness program. Here are my issues with it being an EXCLUSIVE program for ski conditioning: For someone who is already a decent skier, the program does not CHALLENGE their balance skills. I am NOT saying it does not use them, but following this program probably would not make significant improvments to ones balance skills.
In many ways, I thinks his dryland training, with its towels and ropes is more unique and superior. They have the potential to promote better alignment and movement awareness in and of themselves.
But of course, you would still need to have some strength and cardio training, which the other sequence would work nicely for. EXCEPT: There are ways to combine alignment and balance skills with strength and cardiovascular training. I don't see much of that here.
What may be fun, in the next few days, provided people are truly interested, would be to look at ways to make some of the exercises more optimal for ski conditioning.
post #111 of 117
I'm proud of all of you. I just had to say that!
post #112 of 117
SCSA,SIKO or whatever, you wrote:

>>Users like "Wacko" are not welcome nor are posts that get personal, are offensive, and are down right mean.<< -pmts wacko

so just because you change screen names you're a different person? That's a joke. The last time you "left" you threatened to sue AC. The latest brouhaha has someone receiving threats. Odd. Yeah, you've received comments that were inappropriate but not totally uncalled for. Now the absurdity goes on.
Sorry to disappoint but i'm pissed.

perhaps the stance discussion should move to "stance wide or narrow"
post #113 of 117
I was going to say the same thing. At least the conversation would be cohesive.
post #114 of 117
post #115 of 117
>>so just because you change screen names you're a different person? That's a joke. The last time you "left" you threatened to sue AC. The latest brouhaha has someone receiving threats. Odd. Yeah, you've received comments that were inappropriate but not totally uncalled for. Now the absurdity goes on.
Sorry to disappoint but i'm pissed.<<

Just a quote - in case it was missed.
post #116 of 117
I too am very proud. Hear me roar.
post #117 of 117
Thread Starter 
I've got to bring this back to the top. This is a long thread. It covers SCSA's (then PMTS WACKO) original challenge to Bob Barnes. Now I see our beloved WAckO (SCSA) challenging Bob Barnes to another ski showdown. Under the "Fear and Trembling" topic. WACkO I don't think Bob B. is either fearing or Trembling in regards to your challenge.
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